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LED Lighting Conversion

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by chan2565, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. Nov 20, 2018 at 8:16 PM
    #3761
    RobP62

    RobP62 DCLBFTMFW

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    Hey Sean,
    I'm going to suggest you contact Steve at @XenonDepot and ask him what he has to say about these:

    https://www.xenondepot.com/h11-osram-night-breaker-Unlimited-bulbs-p/64211nbu-01b.htm

    It could be you would be very happy picking up 2 packs of these. I personally can't offer any personal experience information about them but the specs seem legit for a halogen replacement in the price range you're looking for.

    A lot of people are very happy with an upgraded halogen.

    Theres a lightning deal right now on the same LEDs I replaced with the Xenon Depot H11 Extreme Pro LEDs

    https://www.amazon.com/HIKARI-Headl...SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=opt7+led+h11&psc=1

    This is an excellent price for what we all liked a hell of a lot, and what a lot of of guys are still completely satisfied with.

    But hurry, the sale ends in 2 hours.
    Rob
     
  2. Nov 21, 2018 at 11:33 AM
    #3762
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Go Hawks!
    I am not trying to discredit anyone or any company. I present measured data. I have zero invested interest in any product/company and just let the data do the talking. It is a funny leap how saying that a 3rd party product (which isn't supplied for free by a vendor to members in this thread) has scientifically better measured performance is somehow snowballed into 'discrediting a company' or that I am attacking people's integrity, or I am calling them liars or that I have some agenda or am deliberately trying to confuse people. And I get messages telling me to censor my posts or delete a comparative review. Where has the unbiased objectivity gone?

    For full transparency:
    DeAutoLED really wanted me to do a review of their LED headlight like I did with their reverse lights here. I deliberately try not to review products that I don't think will work well as it is a waste of everyones time and I turn down the majority of these review requests. With an understanding of lighting design, you can usually have a pretty good idea looking at the physical product if it is a good design to perform well or not. Unfortunately they do not provide any images of their products and just claim theirs are better. As I had tried the reverse LEDs and they were the best output of the reverse LEDs I tested, so I finally agreed to take a look at their product. What I received was a well built but otherwise somewhat standard design of the opposing chips on a rod style H11 LED with a cooling fan.

    DeAutoLED left vs Hikari right
    wZ5Eh6dQTi+ukzIEvZe1lA.jpg
    Cross section of the LEDs, DeAutoLED was 3.8mm vs Hikari at 2.2mm.

    Since LEDs in reflector housings is a well documented bad practice that blinds other drivers, I didn't want to test them in my 2015 fogs because it would look bad. But I also didn't have a 3rd Gen with H11 headlights, and borrowing a truck after dark in the late summer to spend dedicated time with was proving challenging. So I invested my own time/money/effort and built a 3rd gen front end to scale using OEM 3rd Gen headlights. The mock up of a quality power supply, OEM headlights and home depot parts was nearly $500.

    eWCXJvDqSo+bxxB%rNGoyA.jpg

    After testing them in the headlights and showing with objective scientific data they were outperformed by Hikari, I was told these bulbs were no longer for the headlights. I was then told in early October that the bulb I had was now for the Tacoma fog, and other people they had been running them in their Tacoma fog lights and they did really well. I explained how this doesn't work and that there will be glare. You cannot move a light source off center with an LED in a reflector housing and not have glare, it is basic physics, their LED is far too wide for the geometry to work. They insisted, so a week later I tried them as specifically instructed in my 2015 fogs and predictably there was glare, and I shared a photo. I received a PM demanding I take my post down and an email telling me not to share info like this as it is bad for their reputation. Then the posted claim was that I now have the wrong bulb and I am not using it in the housing it was designed for, when just a week prior I was told specifically this is the bulb they use in Tacomas fogs. Sound confusing?

    I ignore demands to censor my posts because it doesn't favor a vendors product. I'm not here to promote and help sell products, I am fiercely independent, I objectively and scientifically test products to provide unbiased information to inform consumers. My data is a little over a month old, they say they replaced the bulb with something else the instant I posted something countering the recommended use from the week prior. Spiraling sharing of data that is a little over a month old into me being confused, or intentionally confusing people, or saying I post irrelevant info when they provided a repeatedly moving target, or that I am trying to discredit them is an interesting take on the events. These are the exact reasons I do not like to be involved in any of these types of non-objective threads. The environment to product critique/criticism is toxic as it has evolved into advertising. And all of these above reasons are why I mention that this thread was better when the members did their own independent research and purchased lights themselves and reported products objectively on their own.

    The bulb I have is a generation behind whatever that newest version you have specifically for the headlights, and I am sure the new one is brighter. But brighter isn't actually as helpful as it would seem, and LED companies get way to focused on brighter when that isn't the problem at all. The LEDs are actually plenty bright but they waste a vast majority of the output due to to poor alignment with the designed optics. They need to be drastically smaller to better utilize the optics of the housing to project light down range, which is why I say understanding the optical physics of lighting is important. A higher output bulkier light source can be easily outperformed by a lower output smaller one that is correctly designed to better utilize the OEM optics, which is the entire purpose of the light assembly. The optics significantly magnify the projected output, so if the source is not using them correctly performance suffers significantly. I'm not just talking putting the chips in the right X and Y location, but making the LED paper thin so they are also in the right Z location. The Hikari cross section is far smaller than any of the drop in LEDs I've seen, which is why they perform better in the measurements I took, not necessarily because they put out more lumens. Larger bulkier LEDs significantly shift the pattern toward the vehicle producing vast amounts of foreground light and people intrinsically judge light output based on foreground light and it makes for great photos and videos but the primary purpose of a headlight is to project distance. And people are very poor at judging distance light which is why using proper tools to objectively measure is important.

    When I try to explain how these things work, and the clear physics of why one scientifically performs better than the other, people get brand defensive if it isn't inline with the products they are now promoting. So it is an interesting claim that the unbiased scientific approach with measured data and no vested interest in any product or vendor has some agenda. To be clear, so people don't get further unnecessarily offended, I am in no way implying that anyone is intentionally trying to mislead people or be in anyway dishonest on their judgement of products they review, or not whole heartedly believe everything they say, but there is an intrinsic bias. I don't need an opinion, the measured data does all the talking for me. Ironically, I don't even like Hikari, it was a product recommended as the best by the years of independent research by the original members of this thread. I think their products are cheap and likely low quality, but they do have a cleaver design and the resulting performance shows in the measured data, and the measured data is what I am sharing.

    I am sure I annoyed a bunch with a long winded post. And I am sure I offended several people by trying to explain how something works, honestly no ill-will is intended. This isn't some conspiracy of trying to discredit companies, or discredit people, or peoples reputations, or integrity, or some agenda, I'm not calling anyone a liar, or posing that people have poor intent, I'm not saying that people are not trying hard, or trying to confuse people. I scientifically measure lights with high quality equipment and no brand alliance and share the measured results. When posting a basic scientific measurement is met with bias brand reactions or attempts to suppress information it is pretty clear the thread has lost credible objectivity and that is not the kind of thread I am interested in being a part of. So I'll leave myself and the objective science out of this thread.

    Edit: Added photos after others were curious, though they have now switched LEDs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    Ruggybuggy, VE7OSR, VewDew and 12 others like this.
  3. Nov 21, 2018 at 12:24 PM
    #3763
    eddy out

    eddy out Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I appreciate your time spent passing along your findings.
     
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  4. Nov 21, 2018 at 2:38 PM
    #3764
    skyking3

    skyking3 Well-Known Member

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    I have always appreciated your unbiased reviews based on accepted scientific methods. I have a B.S. degree in Aeronautical Engineering and a M.S. and ABD in Physics with a research area in laser optics and can easily differentiate between opinion and sound scientific analysis. You are the reason I switched from Baja Designs fog lights to Rigid fogs. Thanks for all of the hard work that you do.
     
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  5. Nov 21, 2018 at 7:49 PM
    #3765
    Parker315

    Parker315 Modding on a Budget

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    TTC (Texas Toyota Coalition) Member #127
    Anyone looking to upgrade their lights to LED should watch this first to obtain a better understanding of all the different lights and what they do in different types of housing. I saw this about a month ago and found it very informative.

    https://youtu.be/DeaDrH0gXZk
     
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  6. Nov 21, 2018 at 8:02 PM
    #3766
    RobP62

    RobP62 DCLBFTMFW

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    These guys are what got me started what seems like a hundred years ago. :thumbsup:
     
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  7. Nov 22, 2018 at 3:42 AM
    #3767
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Well-Known Member

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    Their information is good but the led lights they sell are cheap lights from China. If you do some digging you can usually find what they are selling on Ebay or Amazon for a lot less. A good example of this is the new Supernova V.4 that they sell for $150. The exact same bulbs can be bought on Ebay for $50.
     
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  8. Nov 22, 2018 at 10:39 AM
    #3768
    RobP62

    RobP62 DCLBFTMFW

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    Yea, I used them as a springboard and then was fortunate I found this thread.

    Happy Thanksgiving!
     
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  9. Nov 24, 2018 at 9:13 AM
    #3769
    deAutoLED.com

    deAutoLED.com Well-Known Member Vendor

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    @crashnburn80 we referenced you to real customer feedback using this model with great success. We mentioned how these LEDs did not cause glare in the VW and other models we tested with photos - if they did not work in the tacoma that is fine but were not selling it in that location.

    Why share results of a product we are not selling? It was something that was sent to you in July and never sold. So we did feel it was misleading and you are making it sound like we asked you to censor something when we never did. We simply asked you not to post results for a bulb we are not selling for that location as it does cause confusion to other products that are better than Hikari that we are actually selling.

    As you saw from REAL feedback people tested our NEW High Beam LED vs hikari and it was much brighter.

    We have something tested to be better vs Hikari in fogs also and it will be launching in 2019. A better design with a brighter diode we feel many will appreciate.

    We test to make sure we only sell what works and looks the best in your Tacoma. Anyone that has shopped or has seen our company online knows we are about our customers and that they are happy with the product they are installing. If we feel it won't be the best or brightest it won't be sold. You see we are not selling any 7443 yet until testing is done.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  10. Nov 24, 2018 at 11:15 AM
    #3770
    Thegenerik1

    Thegenerik1 Well-Known Member

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    What is your new LED high beam light? Your site is not very clear and actually contradicts what you just said. The LED highbeam in your signature link for Tacoma’s says it’s for VW, Audi and Jeep when you click on it. That sounds like the bulb he tested.

    4358B138-FA68-4BA1-AA07-EA9725D1CE98.jpg
    F57B805E-3A66-4E4B-B399-E5147A5A0DBC.jpg
     
  11. Nov 24, 2018 at 11:17 AM
    #3771
    rickm

    rickm Well-Known Member

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  12. Nov 24, 2018 at 11:22 AM
    #3772
    deAutoLED.com

    deAutoLED.com Well-Known Member Vendor

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    @Thegenerik1 - yes - the team always makes sure when someone orders a non-model specific item they confirm what they are using.

    These LEDs are the best and brightest for many models. Unfortunately it didn't work out in the tacoma and NOT what we are selling it for. They have a brighter bulb vs hikari for high beams and a new design for the fog LEDs coming out soon.

    We would not sell something that doesn't work - it just leads to bad feedback and reviews. So for another member to keep posting it over and over when we already said it wasn't a model being sold for this specific housing is causing major confusion for others looking into our products.

    Those LEDs have beat out many models and brands - hikari style works 'better' but ours are still brighter - our leds stay low and spread far - brighter than hikari in this location, philips and many other popular brands - another 3rd party confirmed this in a Jetta reflector fog. We seen it in some Tacoma work amazing but his specific setup it did not - as you know all car models are not the same and why we test prior to launch:
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Here are the same bulbs in a Jeep - we are not selling it for the Tacoma until more testing is done but told him we would not sell it.
    [​IMG]


    Here are the same bulbs vs many popular brands and hikari - the person testing use our kit for his daily drive:
    http://bulbfacts.com/led-kits/chart/

    We saw different results in different tacoma reflectors fogs vs what he saw also. But due to not knowing the difference between models we want to avoid any issues so we are waiting on a new model for the fogs. high beams are out.

    Everything so far here what you linked is tested to work - the fog LEDs are not ones we are using in that model currently:
    http://deautokey.com/category/shop-by-car-model-toyota-tacoma-all-years-trims
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
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  13. Nov 24, 2018 at 11:26 AM
    #3773
    Thegenerik1

    Thegenerik1 Well-Known Member

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    Then why link to "Offering a wide range of LEDs for your Tacoma:
    All LEDs for your Tacoma"


    If they don’t work in the Tacoma why would your signature have a link to them for use in a Tacoma. Terrible business practice. I will be spending my money elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  14. Nov 24, 2018 at 12:02 PM
    #3774
    deAutoLED.com

    deAutoLED.com Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Yes everything works except the Fogs - those are removed from the listings and we NEVER posted it here in the forum until the final testing is done - everything else does work so don't confuse it please with 1 product as this is what we feel someone wanted we suppose. But we have no problem taking the time to explain our brand and product more and what we want to offer.

    Bright reverse - very popular:
    http://deautokey.com/product/bright-15-chip-reverse-leds-194-921-wedge-error-free-fits-toyota-tacoma

    No resistors - totally plug and play front 7440 turns:
    http://deautokey.com/product/universal-front-turn-signal-leds-fits-all-car-models

    Low beam HID kit tested to be one of the brightest at a BETTER price:

    http://deautokey.com/product/35w-slim-digital-ac-canbus-ballast-h7-h8-h11-h15-9006

    Interior Kit:

    http://deautokey.com/product/complete-interior-led-kit-for-toyota-tacoma-3rd-gen-2016

    Low beam reflector LEDs:

    http://deautokey.com/product/headlight-leds-for-reflector-housing-halogen-housing-fits-many-cars-including-vw-audi-jeep

    Bright license plates:

    http://deautokey.com/product/universal-license-plate-leds-super-bright-error-free-fits-many-vw-and-audi-models

    Bright side markers:

    http://deautokey.com/product/universal-error-free-side-marker-leds-amber-or-white

    Brighter better than hikari high beams -drop down it is the Tacoma specific model:

    http://deautokey.com/product/h15-daytime-running-leds-high-beams-100-plug-play-fits-many-volkswagen-audi-models


    COMING SOON - not just words - these are testing with amazing results and we feel a few members here have them but I'd have to check with the team:
    Brand new brake/tail 7443 technology out soon -NO resistors - BRIGHT
    Brand new 7443 front turn switch back white/amber and solid amber coming out soon
    Bright brand new fog LED design for reflectors out early 2019 :) very excited about this

    As we said - we never sold or have sold that fog light for Tacoma. So to keep posting a review like that doesn't make sense. It was never used but at the same time that same LED kit ranked better and higher than hikari in testing in many fog models. 3rd party website we have no affiliation with also has said this.

    We are here for the long run. You can ask anyone here - while people on the forum have been a great support in realizing what we offer no one has purchased a fog LED and don't expect them to until the final testing is done.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  15. Dec 1, 2018 at 12:39 AM
    #3775
    Sgrif513

    Sgrif513 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 2019 TRD Sport and mine doesn't either. It's my first Taco so I guess I don't know anything different. Would be nice to have some lighting in there though.
     
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  16. Dec 1, 2018 at 2:33 PM
    #3776
    mrproduxn

    mrproduxn Well-Known Member

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    I have not been on this thread in a long time. I will say that I am extremely happy, both for price and output of both high and low beams, with the Hikari bulbs. I am also happy with my Baja Designs fog lights. All have performed within or above my expectations. I have made a few country road trips and have zero reasons to look for any better bulbs. The only downer, if you really want to call it that, is the BD fogs cannot be used for city driving for respect of oncoming traffic. When I need them they are fantastic.
     
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  17. Dec 1, 2018 at 2:52 PM
    #3777
    RobP62

    RobP62 DCLBFTMFW

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    Hi Steve! Nice you popped in! Great you're still happy with the Hikari's! I still say they are great bulbs. They were on sale again on Amazon the other day too.
     
  18. Dec 1, 2018 at 3:02 PM
    #3778
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Well-Known Member

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    The Hikaris are rated as one of the best bulbs on Amazon. A close second would be the Kantana bulbs. They are the exact same bulbs as the Supernova V.4 bulb sold by Headlight Revelotion at 1/3 the cost.

    https://youtu.be/TXEJVCIsCaA
     
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  19. Dec 1, 2018 at 3:14 PM
    #3779
    RobP62

    RobP62 DCLBFTMFW

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    :thumbsup: They really are great bulbs.
     
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  20. Dec 2, 2018 at 12:24 PM
    #3780
    VE7OSR

    VE7OSR 'interfering with Natural Selection since 1990'

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    Armour: All-Pro Skid plates - IFS, transmission, and transfer case. Pelfreybilt rear standard plate bumper, Metal Tech Sliders w/ kickout and dimple die filler plates. Front Suspension: OME 885 + NitroCharger 9000 shocks + 1/2" spacers for a 3" lift. Superbumps replacing stock bumpstops. Camburg ball joint UCA SS braid brake lines Future: ADS Extended length, extended length UCA BJ to increase droop capability Rear Suspension: All-Pro Expedition rear leafs, Walker Evans 27" rear shocks, extended rear brake lines (Wheelers Offroad), U -bolt flip kit, rear Timbren bumpstops. Future: Hammer Hangers, Shock relocate, ADS 12" or 14" shock. Interior: Weatherteck floor liners - front, Wet Okoles- front, ScanGauge, LED interior & map lights. Power moonroof. Exterior: Raider Cobra canopy, retrofit headlight by Insight, LED bulbs all around, modified flasher unit for LEDs. Rear diff breather mod. Front diff vibe problem, driver's side needle bearing replaced with ECGS bushing. yet to install: HID Blazer Fog Retrofit, LED Flood & Spot, + switches, fuse panel. swaybar relocate blocks (build my own)
    seems that concerns raised by forum members have been heard by your mods, and thread updated. Note for 2nd gen owners looking for answers here, (you are in 3rd gen section)that specific bulb types in here focus on the 3rd gen 2016+ Tacoma models, but in general terms there is still good info in here.
     
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