Light weight slider options

Mobtown is planning to do a aluminum slider I believe. Hit them up

 

Only pics I have of my Demello round tube sliders at the moment. They're about 40 lbs each side. Welds and powdercoating are excellent. Bolted up to the frame factory holes with no issues. Installed by myself using a pair of jackstands.

 

Lol, no they don't.

 

Expedition Overland has them on their third gen. So..

Do.

 

Fair point, but I'm not sure this entirely negates the benefit - do you not see any benefit to a higher yield strength assuming there's enough room between the slider and the truck to allow non-permanent bending? I know some people like them high and tight but these appear to have a bit more space between the rocker panel and slider than most.... in theory this would allow them to take advantage of that higher yield strength.

Another unique aspect is the mounting points: they're all the way to the ends of each slider instead of a foot short like in most others. The front mount is particularly clever as it mates up to the underside of the cab mount on the frame. However, the rear mount is admittedly a huge PITA (solo at least) to install as it reaches up between the gas tank and the frame.

I'll have to get some better pics once the weather is nice and my truck is clean, but here's a few. I ordered them raw in part to save money and partially because I really don't like the logo they pop rivet on the finished powder coat. Upon arrival I sanded the surface rust, filled the holes they drilled for the logo with JB weld and sanded it smooth. I then spray painted them with a textured coat followed by black attempting to mimic the powder coat look. With the door open they sit about 6'' below the door sill and they kind of have filler plates but if you step on them you're mostly stepping on the tube regardless. That flat surface near the front is what bolts up against the cab mount and the long arm in the back reaches up by the gas tank.

Here's a vid that shows them as well (not me).
https://youtu.be/ddsEZNNVu5c

 

No. The higher yield strength doesn't help with that. Bending is independent of yield strength. So if you have the room, you could drop tubing size to save weight whether you use chromoly or mild steel. It would give you the same result except one costs a lot more.

 

Don't you make sliders from unobtanium? It's a pain to weld but man you can charge a lot more for them.

 

Tempting. Availability is the only issue.

 

Cost-effectiveness aside, why would a higher yield strength not be beneficial? With identical dimensions, chromoly will be more resistant to permanent deformation and failure. Is your point that for sliders, stiffness is simply a higher priority than yield strength?

What's the difference between sliders and people using chromoly in roll cages or bikes to save weight? I suppose stiffness is less important in roll cages?

 

Because beam bending and buckling equations don't rely on tensile strength. It's modulus of elasticity and moment of inertia of the cross section. Yield strength isn't a factor at all. Going to chromoly doesn't help because you aren't increasing your modulus of elasticity. The idea of saving weight by reducing the cross section is valid, but all that does is increase the amount of deflection you get. And higher tensile strength doesn't fix that. So, you could save weight, but deflection goes up. Adding more cost by using chromoly doesn't help with deflection, hence it's kinda pointless.

I think you hit the nail on the head. In roll cages, you don't care if the cage moves (for the most part), some movement even helps lower the acceleration. And roll cage typically use a lot of truss structuring where the elements are in tension and compression so yield strength is more important. And you care a lot about weight, so in essence you're slimming the cross section down so much that the deflection is now causing the stress in the material to be at the limits of material (or at least too close for comfort). In theory, you could do the same thing with sliders, but they would be about 2 feet below the rock panel and you'd have to reduce the cross section of the tubing a bunch to get enough deflection to put you near the yield point of mild steel.

I think the best way to think about it is material failure vs functional failure. The stress in the material is so low in sliders that they aren't anywhere near the yield stress of mild steel. But functionally, they can only deflect so far before they hit the rocker panel. And since deflection isn't affected by yield strength, it doesn't help having higher yield.

 

FWIW Rocky Road says their 3rd Gen. Tacoma sliders w/o the add-on tubes are about 70 lbs. total.

 

A true set of sliders is what 120lbish? That's less then the average adult. And the weight is spread out pretty evenly on the body, as well as almost lowest to the ground as possible. Couldn't ask for a better weight distribution. IMHO, 30-50lbs saved isn't worth sacrificing strength. You'll be gaining any weight saved any time you have passengers.

 

I agree with Mr. Chapman's statement of "add lightness". Sliders that are 20lbs heavier than others are at lowest point of the chassis, which is not going to upset the COG of the truck much, if at all.

 

Someone has a Mechanical background or experience with metallurgy.

Very true that Chromoly specifically 4130 (alloy steel) vs A36 has little to no difference in weight reduction since the density and the E are within a few % even depending on mill heat. Yes Chromoly has almost double the yield strength but unless you are designing for failure there is no added benefit. I design pressure vessel for an EPC company and chromoly is usually only spec out for higher temp reactors ($$$) where mild CS strength drops exponentially above ~650 F range. Also chromoly does have good corrosion resistance properties but still can rust. Designing with allowable stresses we can reduce column thickness by almost half using chromoly but bending and buckling still have to be evaluated separately.

Components like rock sliders that take impact should be evaluated for hardness (aluminum), bending and buckling.

 

I know more than the average Joe

 

Very good question with a lot of good answers. When I built my first set of sliders in 1998 for my own truck the only thing on the market was all pro's modified to fit the new Tacoma's and welded on and Bent up off road up north (out of business I believe). My main goal was to save weight and not make heavy anchors off the side of my truck but still protect the truck. I also didn't want to trip over them every time i got out of the truck.

My first set of sliders was made from 1.5in round tube and had four mounting points welded to the frame using 4x4 square plates and a small gusset. for the wheelin I did back then, these never failed, never bent never let me down. They did flex a little when the trucks weight was placed completely on one side. But they did bounce back.

Over the years we have come to the conclusion that everyone uses their sliders in a different way and wants different things from them. That's why we make 5 different styles for all the Toyota's.

The rounds are now all 1.75in tubing because the weight difference is not enough to justify the weaker 1.5in tubing. And we switched to DOM a few years back for everything except FJC rounds.

We also try to source only material that has been certified, Marlin crawler INC. a number of years back did a test on DOM tubing from (i believe china) a competitor used. And HREW from a certified US source that they used and found that the HREW was actually stronger in relation to the bending and or denting sliders often see. They did test with a press and pressure gauge I believe along with several other test. http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=60158.0
I haven't read the post in years so let me know if I miss quoted something.

Aside from building the sliders here we get the fairly unique opportunity to talk to our customers on a daily basis. Discussing what they use their truck for and how they use their sliders. Those that do a lot of overlanding and would rather spend that earned weight somewhere else we recommend the round or the hybrid sliders as they are the lightest sliders we make. Those that want the ultimate in strength we push towards the xwings or the rock crushers.
Funny side bar, when we set out to design the x-wings they were going to be all aluminum with PTFE (plastic) runners on the bottom. BUT when our cost got north of the 1000 mark and at the time sliders averaged 350-450 we decided the world was ready for that yet.

We also looked at the rest of the vehicle and the people in it for weight savings. A lot of our customers carry way to much gear. I've met people carrying entire tool boxes full of tools. I've explained to them, you really only need some basic stuff, a hand full of zip ties and a tow strap. Some people running full heavy duty set of steel skid plates but never do more than a dirt road. The sliders become the one area you kinda want to keep them heavy duty or at least simi heavy duty. IMO it's kinda like the frame, you don't make your frame ligther and weaker to save a few pounds, you kinda need that to support the rest of the truck, you make the body lighter, or maybe just ease off the donuts



Back in the early days with 1.5in round tubing. We use to always say, as long as you "slide" on your sliders they will hold up, don't "bang" on them.



As our wheelin trips got harder I did upgrade to 1.75in tubing sliders and never bent them. Our original truck never saw anything over 1.75in tubing HREW and nothing more than a ding on the sliders. BUT I also tried not to slam down on stuff. This picture below may be the worst I was ever on them. What you can't see in the pic is the truck on top winching me up which put an incredible load on the sliders and frame. The sound was horrible and at the time I was in business for making sliders. I'll admit I was a little puckered that they would bend and would forever be known as the slider builder who bent sliders, but they held up fine.




On the other side of the coin is xwings which are pretty stout. Here is a T-bone from a couple years ago on Fathers day, all my kids in the car and a Drunk lady ran a stop sign and found the side of our 4runner. the impact was enough to bend the front wheel and spindle but the sliders escaped with just the tread plate bent. Her car was totaled.

 

Extra points for naming those wheelin spots

 

Bumping this. Anymore light weight sliders come to market since? Also, SDHQ advertises their sliders to work with CMCs. Do some sliders not work with CMCs?

 

I’m pretty sure Greenlane makes aluminum ones and they have good feedback

 

Mine took a hard hit last week, and they held up! OCF, they ship in a two piece configuration but they are solid for most casual off roading. A far step up from steps for sure and not too much more money. If Ya care about money...