Lithium Ion batteries

Yeah. 200ah worth of LiFePO batteries will set you back a minimum of $1600. 225ah worth of Trojan T-105s cost $160. If weight is a concern, you could use the extra $1450 to buy a used ATV on craigslist :^)

 

Can we not forget depth of discharge? Lithium is good for thousands of cycles down to 80%, and still a heck of a lot down to 95%. Lead acid should never be brought below 50%. That cuts that 225ah down to 112ah. So using some numbers others posted previously, our 100ah lithium battery weighs in at 29 pounds, and gets us 80 usable amp hours. Our lead acids weigh in at 130 pounds and take up tons of space, and get us 112 usable amp hours

Then you factor in lifespan.. lead acid are only good for a few years in any decent heat. Down here in Alabama, we get a lot of heat. Kills batteries with a quickness. Good lithium batteries are all warrantied for 10-15 years, and are capable of that life span.

Than charging speed. Lithium charges way quicker than lead acid as it doesn’t need the float period. This is super nice if you only have a set number of hours of drive time, or sunlight for solar.

The RV world, the sailing world, and pretty much every other “off the grid” industry is going lithium, for good reason.

 

What’s the “float period”?

 

One thing to be aware of is having the proper charge controller.

Draining an AGM too low damages it over time but over charge a lithium ion by 1% and it's done.

They are nice in the fact they can be depleted almost all the way and be fine though.

Do you find yourself needing that extra power though?

 

All good points. Coming from the off road/ camping world of FJ 40 and FJ cruiser , multi function and utility was key. A $300 battery that could be a backup starter, a portable 12v camp, was key. If it lasted 10 yrs and could be discharged to 21.5% was bonus. I have never ever seen anyone run dual 109lb lead acid 6v in a setup that was not on an RV. The Tacoma makes it possible, but not the setup for me.

 

But 200ah of lithium gets me 200 usable. It would take me over a week of zero charging to run through that. And even if I did manage to drain that, I can cut the truck on for an hour and be charged back at least halfway.

 

No, it isn't 200 usable... Close, but not 200.

Please tell me what equipment and circuitry you are using in your truck to charge a 200amp battery more than half way in an hour.

 

Aren't the Lithium-Ion battery's prone to catching fire?

 

From Relion’s website

100% of rated capacity

As for charging, I’ll give you that one. While it’s possible to do, it’s not smart to risk your expensive batteries. The biggest dc-dc charger I can find is 40A without stepping up to the RV stuff (inverter, shore power charger, solar charger, dc charger all built together) so +/-2.5 hours.

And again, I only have to do that once a week. The moment I add in solar, I’m topping my battery off all day while we’re not at camp.

We all have a preference. I don’t have lithium money right now so I don’t have lithium. I buy cheap deep cycles and beat them to hell. One day I’ll drop the coin on lithium, when I can go camping more than once every few months. But if you can swallow the price tag up front, they have tons of benefits and you get your money’s worth over the years.

 

Some of he chemistries, yes. IF things go wrong and the battery gets punctured or something. Most of them now have much thicker casings than in the past, and of something manages to puncture my battery, I have big problems already. I don’t want to act like I know the specifics but the tech has gotten much safer over the years (at least I had for the good brands. Not sure about the cheap ones on Amazon)

 

Ideal Li-ion charge rate is 0.5C (100a) CCCV. 40a is 0.2C rate, which will still take a while. Honestly, I don't what people are using to quickly charge big Li batteries, I'm curious. I I was under the impression that Li-ion batteries all had BMS protection circuits built into them (specially for $1600!) and in that case you could use whatever charger / PS you wanted as long as it was 14.6v or higher. I have made power packs out of old laptop Lithium batteries, I used BMS boards off of ebay and just charged them with wall worts....

I use a 50a IOTA smart AC charger for somewhat quick charging SLA, and it's still not that quick (4-6 hours). 90a charger would be ideal, but it would have to be plugged into my welder breaker... Tying deep cycles into the truck alternator wouldn't do much unless you are driving all day.

Don't get me wrong, I don't "prefer" heavy SLA batteries. I just prefer not being broke. When my Fred Flinstone golf cart batteries crap out, perhaps lithium batteries will be cheaper and I will buy some.

 

You definitely can use whatever charger you want. There are lots of people who have them wired straight to their alternator. So for example, tacos with the tow package have the 130a alternator. I’ve read threads where people said their truck was actively using +/- 30a with the radio and hvac and anything extra turned off (I haven’t tested this so no clue of the accuracy)
If I can pump the remaining 100a of output into that battery, it will charge pretty dang quick

Again, I personally wouldn’t do that because I don’t want that risk. Not worth it to me.

The GoPower inverter/chargers seem to be the hot item in the industry right now. But they’re big (although probably no bigger than those Trojan’s lol) but they incorporate more features than I think I would need. Mostly, shore power input. Handy on an RV, useless on a truck. Also, the huge inverters they have built in. I just don’t need a 3-5kw pure sine inverter in my truck for camping.

And yes, hopefully they get cheaper and cheaper. Some YouTube channels I follow have 600ah+ worth of lithium batteries and 1500w+ worth of solar on their boats and RVs. All I can think is “must be nice”

 

I bet not. They are coming out with some really cool new technologies in this space. Smaller, lighter, cheaper and environmentally friendly lead acid batteries are gaining traction. The cost per watt hour is still way less (and going down) for lead acid and the current draw is higher.

 

Have any links to this new stuff? I've been causally looking for an upgrade and was just going to pick up an Odyssey.

 

I have 600ah off flooded lead acid with 400w of solar charging. Add in loads of led lights, an inverter running a tv and some USB charging devices plus my roof fan and I have a shit ton of capacity for reasonable loading of the batteries. I will never run out of power unless in conditions where I have zero solar charging. Due to the size of my bank I should never drain my bank anywhere near 50%. So let’s talk lifespan. At the above post claims of 300-500 discharge cycles and my low draw my batteries will have a stupid long lifecycle if maintained properly.

Now lithium would be an awesome way to go with no offgassing, easy of mounting options and lighter weight. But their cost with a shakey past history don’t make me confident to spend huge and risk them crapping out well short of their lifespan. Sure they are better technology but I can’t justify the technology vs price vs risk.

The above quoted 600ah and 1500w of charging capacity seems out of whack. Either the battery bank seems small or the charging capacity seems excessive and a bit of a waste.

 

The catylyst material is the key to stability and the difference.

Lithium Polymer are crazy scary of they fail.
Lithium Cobalt I find not worth the trade off.
Lithium Fero Phosphate are very safe.

 

That is a wicked setup. I thought it was a typo as 600Ah on lead acid would weigh a buttload, but realized that was likely a home setup, or are you just a badass?

Properly setup and maintained lb is great and can last forever if you can handle the weight.

 

Oddesy are great, but you are paying for brand and reputation. Costco used to carry LiFePo4 and offered 12yr warranty. It was about 30% less than name brand

 

Well these people are also running household French door refrigerators and running HVAC systems, and have 5 people living on board

 

I think he meant absorption

Lead acid should get charged in 3 stages, bulk is when you can dump a bunch of current into the battery, and it can happen fairly fast, but that only gets you to about 85% charged. Then comes absorption, when you change at a much lower rate the last 15% or so. Last comes float which gets and keeps the full charge. A lithium can be charged at a high rate till full.