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Locker Options...

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by dtrujillo63, Dec 29, 2008.

?

Where should I install a locker?

  1. LSD Rear + Locker Front

    62 vote(s)
    45.9%
  2. Locker Rear + Open Diff Front

    73 vote(s)
    54.1%
  1. Dec 29, 2008 at 2:41 PM
    #1
    dtrujillo63

    dtrujillo63 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So I decided what my next mod is going to be. An ARB locker :D! Now I'm just trying to decided how I want to approach the situation. Since I have a TRD Sport, I currently have LSD in the rear. Should I keep the LSD in the rear and just get an ARB locker for the front? or dump the LSD and throw an ABR locker in the rear? From what I've seen so far, the LSD is very capable, especially when using the e-break (poor mans locker ;)). The majority of the time, its the front that loses traction because of the open diff and limited travel. What setup do you think I would benefit most from?
     
  2. Dec 29, 2008 at 3:28 PM
    #2
    luk8272

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    I think I would go locker up front and lsd in the rear. If that doesn't suit you later you could change it. I feel these trucks are very capable.
     
  3. Dec 29, 2008 at 3:30 PM
    #3
    Khaos

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    Do you really wheel hard enough to justify getting the locker? I've heard bad things about putting lockers in the front of the truck. If anything ditch the LSD for an ARB locker in the rear.
     
  4. Dec 29, 2008 at 3:34 PM
    #4
    Cobra69

    Cobra69 Well-Known Member

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    You forgot to add e-lacker rear and ARB locker upfront or arb F/B in the Poll

    I have e-locker Rear and ARB in the front.
     
  5. Dec 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM
    #5
    luk8272

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    He makes a good point.
     
  6. Dec 29, 2008 at 3:43 PM
    #6
    Cobra69

    Cobra69 Well-Known Member

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    Up here in the NE you need two lockers in 2/3 of the trails dus to shelf's,ledges, rocks that we have.
     
  7. Dec 29, 2008 at 3:45 PM
    #7
    Cobra69

    Cobra69 Well-Known Member

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    If you put a selectable locker like the ARB.......You'll have no problemswith it. the people running into problems are mostly those who install a fulltime locker drive on the road like they don't have one in the diff.
     
  8. Dec 29, 2008 at 4:01 PM
    #8
    dtrujillo63

    dtrujillo63 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I do wheel enough, i want to play it safe and get a locker. There has been multiple times where I have to back off the trail and try again and again because I have no locker. As for it being bad, its only bad if its a full time locker. I would only engage it when needed.

    Because I have a TRD sport, I can't just pop in an OEM e-locker. I would have to swap complete differential. Locked differentials are 8" diffs where non-locked diffs are 8.4". Trust me, I did all the research. It would've been awesome if I could've just swaped the LSD for an e-locker :(...
     
  9. Dec 29, 2008 at 4:06 PM
    #9
    Cobra69

    Cobra69 Well-Known Member

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    Then I would go for an ARB locker and smile the whole time i was offroading knowing I had that in my diff.
     
  10. Dec 30, 2008 at 11:46 AM
    #10
    Janster

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    You already have a traction device in the rear.... keep it.

    Get the ARB in the front and use it wisely on the trails.
     
  11. Dec 31, 2008 at 6:08 PM
    #11
    jflan

    jflan Well-Known Member

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    Yep, in most situations you'll be happier with open or LSD front and locker in rear. Lockers do not like to turn when both sides are getting good traction.
    This is why open differentials were invented back in the day.

    Locked front and rear for extreme off-road.
     
  12. Jan 11, 2009 at 2:58 AM
    #12
    Greenblazer

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    A selectable locker in the front allows you to only engage it when you need it. If you are a serious wheeler you will want selectable lockers up front, and in the rear. This is the ideal setup, but also the most expensive.

    I would suggest that you do the front with a selectable, and leave the LSD alone for now. If you find the trails you are wheelin are giving the LSD problems, then change it to a selectable or automatic locker in the rear later.

    Regular lockers that are not selectable are the ones that cause most of the problems people refer to with lockers. Selectable lockers work just like open or sometimes LSD until you switch them to "Locked" and you should only do that off road. This is why Toyota's selectable locker only works at low speed. You do not want to go fast when locked. Do not drive on pavement when "Locked"

    For those who don't quite understand this is a layman's explanation of Differentials/lockers/LSD's/:

    A differential allows the drive wheels to turn at different speeds which is necessary to go around a turn. When turning the inside and outside wheels(or right and left wheels) turn at different speeds because the distance they are traveling in relation to the other wheel is different. Without a differential both wheels are "Locked" together which means one of the tires must slip to allow a vehicle to turn. That can end up badly on pavement because once one wheel has lost traction the other now has to maintain all of the traction. Logically two tires grip better than one, and in a situation where only one tire has traction you could easily end up in a spin because both tires could loose traction.

    Spools/welded differentials are when both right and left wheels are permanently locked together. These choices are for extreme wheeling rigs that see little to no road use. These are rarely to almost never used on the front because they make steering virtually impossible even when rock crawling. I have heard of them occasionally being used on the front in mud racing rigs where steering is not much of an issue. With the front fully locked your truck will push the front tires, and will not turn much if at all.

    Automatic lockers like the LockRight and others disengage automatically when no gas pedal(torque) is applied, so with this kind careful on road driving is required or you could spin the truck out because of a traction loss. This requires you to coast around sharp turns. If you don't the auto locker will lock both right and left wheels together, and one tire will have to slip for the vehicle to turn. This is why locked rear diffs cause tires to chirp going around corners. If you had one of these in the front and tried to turn, the vehicle will just push the front tires and the vehicle will barely turn.

    Selectable lockers like the ARB & Elocker function like like open or LSD differentials until switched to "Locked" some are regular open (ARB) and some are LSD(Some models of Elockers).

    LSD's are limited slip differentials. They work like differentials and allow the wheels to rotate at different speeds, but when they sense that one wheel is stopped, and the other is spinning they transfer torque the stopped wheel. There are several ways LSD do this, but I will skip that part.

    When wheelin there are many times that one or more tires lose traction. A differential that is open will send torque to the path of least resistance. This is why when you are stuck in the mud or snow only one wheel will spin, and the other tends to just sit there. A limited slip will limit the difference in the speed of both wheels. A locked differential will force both wheels to turn at the same rate as if they were locked together.

    If your open differential 4X4 has one front and one rear tire in the air or without traction, all the torque will follow the path of least resistance, and the tires without traction will just spin, your truck will not move. Lockers lock both tires together on the axle, so the tire with traction will turn at the same rate as the tire without traction. In an open differential 4X2(2wd) you only need one rear tire to lose grip to stop forward motion. In rock crawling sometimes only one tire out of the four has a good grip, and if you are not locked in that situation you are stuck.

    I hope this helps clear up a few questions.
     
  13. Jan 11, 2009 at 5:59 AM
    #13
    Delmarva

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    ^^
    Nice explanation:D

    +1
     
  14. Jan 11, 2009 at 11:05 AM
    #14
    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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    I would go with rear locker, open front. Lockers mean larger turn radius and more binding of the drive train while turning. I can only imagine that effect is worse when it's a front locker. Do you really want that while trying to navigate trails? Especially if this is you DD? I know they do locked front and rear trucks, but how many of those get driven home at the end of the day? (As apposed to being towed home broken or not.)

    There's also the question of if the IFS is weaker than the rear axle, and if putting a locker up front is going to break something easier.

    I typically wheel in 2wd so I have 4wd when I bog down or get stuck. If it's too rough/wet/muddy for 1 wheel in 2wd, I engage the locker. That still leaves 4wd to pull me through. If you do the front locker you'll have to be in 4wd to use it.

    Yes, I know you have an LSD, but that's *not* a locker, and it won't be as good if 1 rear wheel is off the ground. You *might* be able to work the brakes to get the LSD to lock up a bit better, but it's still not a locker.
     
  15. Jan 11, 2009 at 11:24 AM
    #15
    Janster

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    Believe it or not, but having a front locker & LSD in the rear is far better than just one rear locker.

    Turning radious is limited, however....and ARB locker (or front selectable) is fully OPEN when disengaged. Driving home is a non-issue.

    Putting a locker in the front or rear can break anything. It depends on how you drive and how you handle the throttle. Either require finese and responsiblity.

    The fact that you only use 2WD while offroading isn't necessarily the best option either. Wheelin in 2WD puts all the torque load on two wheels which puts more stress on the drivetrain. Using 4WD while wheeling (and especially 4 LO) disperses the torque load to all 4 wheels and less stress on any given two components. So why only use 2WD when wheelin? And using 2WD locked is the worst thing you could do.....

    Technically, lockers should only be used when needed. The LSD gives you better traction than an open diff and doesn't limit turning radious.

    Having selectable lockers front & rear is ultimately the best to have. But....putting a selectable locker in the front first along with an LSD gives you far more traction capabilities than only 1 locker in the rear.
     
  16. Jan 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM
    #16
    piercedtiger

    piercedtiger Devout Atheist

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    well shit, I guess maybe I shouldn't drive in 2wd at all then. :laugh: Since all the strain is on the 2 wheels... OMG... maybe I shouldn't tow in 2wd mode either! :eek:

    Offroading in 4wd all the time is stupid. What happens when you get stuck in 4wd? Especially 4LO? That's it! Get your ass out and pull that winch line (if you have one), or try contacting a friend. I do mild offroading and don't have a choice about going alone. No friends with a jeep or a truck let alone a winch so I do what gives me multiple extraction options.

    At least in 2wd I'll know when things are getting bad before they reach a point I need help getting out. In 4wd you won't know how bad things are until you get stopped and need to be pulled out. Maybe that just doesn't seem smart to me. *shrug*

    Interesting how I've broken a front diff, but nothing on the rear. Guess that makes me think the front drive train is weaker than the rear, and makes not want to stress it anymore with a locker. At least not without a locker in the rear too so it's fully locked, and I don't have an LSD in the rear that could just as easily act as an open diff. Doesn't make sense to me to put a locker up front because "I wheel hard enough to need it", but leave the LSD. The LSD will wear out and become useless. Why not just get rid of it now with a locker that's not going to wear out? Then later on get another locker for the front since the compressor, air tank and lines are there?


    And my comment about driving home had nothing to do with the locker being engaged, but I guess you didn't get that. My point was if the fully locked rigs BROKE on the trail they were towed home. So it didn't really matter how much abuse the driver dished out. If one has to drive the same vehicle home after the trail ride a bit more caution should be taken.

    And I think I know the difference between open, locked, and LSD. I think we've discussed it enough times, but again, you apparently didn't get what I was saying.
     
  17. Jan 11, 2009 at 1:27 PM
    #17
    sonjay

    sonjay Well-Known Member

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    I voted front ARB. You already have a traction device in the rear that works properly, get the ARB front and when your clutches in the rear pack it in get something else. I personally would not spend the money on an ARB in the rear, a detroit or similar is much cheaper and more effective for the rear IMO. I had a 1981 Toy pickup that we welded the front diff like a spool, it had manual hubs so I could drive it somewhat normally until it got nasty, then just lock the other hub. I couldn't believe the clawing effect the truck had with a front locker, went damn near anywhere.
     
  18. Jan 15, 2009 at 10:22 AM
    #18
    gonzo6up

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    this is some good info guys becasue i have been wondering about the same issue with my sport too, thanks
     
  19. Jan 15, 2009 at 2:25 PM
    #19
    Janster

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    Obviously, we have two totally different view of what offroading is (or what it should be).

    Yup, I always wheel in 4lo regardless. Wheelin to me is about slow crawling. The slower you go, the least chance you have to bust something up. But that's the type of wheelin we do here in PA (or atleast I do here in PA). Because - if you're wheeling in 2WD, you're just asking to bust up your rear axleshafts, bend axle flanges, bend wheels, break u-joints to name a few.

    You always have a choice - and the fact that you chose to wheel alone is just not a smart decision to me. I'm not talking about getting stuck either. Who gives a crap if you get stuck. Anyone with a hi-lift jack, chain/straps, and a tree can get yourself unstuck. There are many things that can happen while being offroad. You can have an accident and/or hurt yourself, be unconscious and not be able to call for help.....then what? Do you think your wife & children/family would be happy when you're missing for days and they find your body dead in the woods? Shit happens. People never seem to understand the true meaning why it's not a good idea to go out there alone.

    But whatever....everyone has their own culture of what offroading is and should be. And that depends on where you live and what you have access to. Here in PA - and especially the club I represent, we discourage wheeling alone. In fact, the offroad parks don't allow you to go out alone.

    As for traction devices, you can do whatever you want. Personally, I'd put an ARB in the front and if/when the LSD craps out .....I'd probably put another LSD in for daily driving/snow usage. That's probably part of the issue here. If someone wants/needs the LSD for daily driving.......put an ARB or other selectable locker in the front for offroading and use it when needed. The best of both worlds for daily driving/offroading.
     
  20. Jan 15, 2009 at 2:38 PM
    #20
    sonjay

    sonjay Well-Known Member

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