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Long range rifles

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by noah farley, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. Mar 24, 2020 at 10:04 PM
    #1701
    boston23

    boston23 Well-Known Member

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    Crazy how this thread is still going 6 years late after such a simple (and vague) original post
     
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  2. Mar 24, 2020 at 10:15 PM
    #1702
    jttx

    jttx Well-Known Member

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    Got it. I will look into a level and watch those videos when I get home. I wasn't even really aware of recoil management fundamentals so I will work on that.
     
  3. Mar 25, 2020 at 2:33 AM
    #1703
    corprin

    corprin Well-Known Member

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    Accustock wedge is what I’m talking about, and sorry if I came off dickish. Been breaking down firearm basics to friends who just panic bought their first. It’s actually refreshing to try and help someone who knows which end goes bang already.

    See: https://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?265-Proper-Torque-Sequence-For-The-AccuStock

    This breaks down the torque sequence for your stock, by one of the engineers that designed it.

    Bipods are interesting. While they are more stable than a hand, they do require a little coordination to implement. Definitely a nice to have, not a requirement. Same with a scope level. I also learned in the military to do without, but my comp rifle certainly has one, just forget it is there sometimes. At 100yrd it’s not as big of a deal, but good habits are good. As a stopgap you can bring/make a plumb bob, hang from something down range and align to that if the range allows. You can also make a line with electrical tape on your target, and make sure it’s level when you post it up.

    Looking at your targets you seem to be shooting at different POI for each group. I’m guessing you are using the various lines in the reticle on center mass at group off center? Not a terrible method, but I’d do it by dialing wind/elevation from 0/0 to make it easier for your brain to center up the reticle. You are naturally predisposed to center your target, and fighting that takes a small mental effort to overcome. That effort is better used at this stage for focusing on your other fundamentals. Unless you are dialing out wind and elevation, then just ignore this paragraph! Different option is adding other bullseyes to shoot at. Looks like you did that with the smaller targets. It might be helpful to back off your scope’s zoom a little and focus on consistent sight picture without worrying about seeing impacts. Like above with centering, we will subconsciously shift POA to accommodate for the shift in POI. Zooming out just a bit will let that

    I think the biggest thing now is your building of a stable position. I like to use the front bag/bags to form a longitudinal “v” for the fore-end to ride in. Rear bag is perpendicular to the stock, and a inch or so forward from the corner. All movements/adjustments are mad from the butt, moving about the front as a pivot.

    Set up and asked to where your body has very little impact on the rifle so the bags are doing most of he work. Key is to remove as much of the shooter from the equation.

    Since I got my noggin knocked around I’ve had to try and focus more which has lead to my theory of my brain works. I look it like a computer processor, where the amount of operations are finite. The more subconscious and conscious tasks I can take off the list, the more processor load I can devote to my fundamentals.

    It’s 4am, and I’m rambling.
     
    Chew, P2W, Martyinco and 1 other person like this.
  4. Mar 25, 2020 at 4:21 AM
    #1704
    P2W

    P2W Whut?

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    How many rounds are you putting down range before letting the barrel cool? That’s a thin barrel as it heats up the the poi will climb, with my Savage Scout it would move up and to the right. Consistent groups also has a lot to do with your body mechanics, without seeing you shoot it’s tough to determine that. Are you squared up behind the rifle, is the eye relief on the scope correct? Is it too far away causing you to over correct by sneaking up the right side of the stock, too close causing you to not get the stock properly located in your shoulder?

    Eventually you’re gonna want to replace that stock if you're looking play the LR game, the Savage hunting stocks are a bit flexible, I would rebarrel eventually as well with a heavier varmint profile
     
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  5. Mar 25, 2020 at 6:22 AM
    #1705
    EubeenHadd

    EubeenHadd Bit of a derp

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    Sounds to me like dry-fire will go a long way in helping you get things grouped, because you're pulling the rifle off course while squeezing off the trigger. These things are what helps me: Follow the 6 steps.
    (1) SIGHT ALIGNMENT: For a scoped shooter, that means no black ring in the scope visible anywhere, just clear vision edge to edge.
    (2) SIGHT PICTURE: Crosshairs on the center of the target
    (3) RESPIRATORY PAUSE: Breathe! When you decide to shoot, take a breath in, let it all the way out, and let it stay out for the shot.
    (4) FOCUS: Focus your mind on keeping the target centered in the crosshairs.
    (5) SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze. Slow. Real slow. I take a full second to squeeze a shot on any rifle with a non-match trigger, and squeeze directly to the rear as if I'm pulling my finger into the web of my thumb.
    (6) FOLLOW THROUGH: Keep your breath out, focus on the target, and trigger pinned to the rear all the way through the shot. If your body positioning is good and you ride the gun out still focused on the target, the rifle should settle on the target after the shot naturally, and you may be able to spot your impact.

    Now, you can do all this in dry fire, at your home. You should, because it's free! It costs nothing, and builds the positive pathways you need to establish for rifle shooting to become second nature. It will also expose any flinch or blink that might be impeding your shooting.

    Additional things that help me:
    *Doubled up ear protection. Muffs and plugs go a long way in disconnecting your body from the violence of a large caliber centerfire rifle.
    *Recoil pads/muzzle brakes both assist in reducing the recoil of the rifle, and make no mistake, that recoil isn't helping you! Padded jackets help too, but recoil control that's part of the rifle is harder to forget at home. Witt machine makes great clamp-on muzzle brakes, and limb saver makes recoil pads.
    *22lr. If you have one, shoot it a lot. If you don't, buy one and shoot it a lot. My Marlin 60 cost me $300 to put together and I have more rounds through it than the rest of my rifles combined, for less than the cost of any of my other rifles before ammo! Practice is much easier when it costs 5 cents per round and you can shoot all day without a sore shoulder after the fact. If you remind me tonight when I get home I can see about finding my Appleseed instructional packets to scan for you to study.
     
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  6. Mar 25, 2020 at 2:19 PM
    #1706
    jttx

    jttx Well-Known Member

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    It seems like my groups do the same after 3 or 4 rounds, so that's probably when I should let it cool. eye relief is good, but I need to do a better job making sure I'm square probably. Thanks
     
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  7. Mar 25, 2020 at 2:24 PM
    #1707
    Rawdoggy

    Rawdoggy Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the vortex 4-12x40 diamondback. It’s 170$ with a discount I’ve got. New to the game, looking for something for my rpr 6.5.
    Fingers point to great deal, didn’t know if anyone knew of something better?
     
  8. Mar 25, 2020 at 2:26 PM
    #1708
    jttx

    jttx Well-Known Member

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    screenshotted, I'm gonna print that out to look at. I'll try the double up ears, and a pad if I can find a cheap one. I actually just got a model 60 from a pawn shop, but the scope I have on it has been very problematic so I'm going to replace it soon. Hopefully, this crisis passes soon so I can find some more .22, The model 60 seems to be fairly picky with what rounds it will cycle.
     
  9. Mar 25, 2020 at 2:37 PM
    #1709
    P2W

    P2W Whut?

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  10. Mar 25, 2020 at 2:40 PM
    #1710
    neegdogdig

    neegdogdig Untrained with bad experiences go go go!

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    746091C7-3151-4C33-9B59-ED7CE854E023.jpg Ground rat day
     
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  11. Mar 25, 2020 at 2:52 PM
    #1711
    shane100700

    shane100700 Bed, Bath & Beyond Crawler

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    Are you prior service or a first responder?

    Asking because you can get some great deals on vortex and other optics through Expertvoice.com
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  12. Mar 25, 2020 at 3:45 PM
    #1712
    EubeenHadd

    EubeenHadd Bit of a derp

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    Mine runs CCI standard velocity quite well, so i'll suggest those for a starting point.
     
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  13. Mar 25, 2020 at 5:49 PM
    #1713
    Rawdoggy

    Rawdoggy Well-Known Member

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    yes. What do you recommend?
     
  14. Mar 25, 2020 at 6:06 PM
    #1714
    dfanonymous

    dfanonymous Well-Known Member

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    Your original post was kinda of vague. Best/best value is subjective. If you plan on dialing your drop and stretch your rpr, that’s probably not the scope for you. Since this isn’t really a true long range thread/forum I reserve my opinion because it really depends what you’re looking to accomplish.
     
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  15. Mar 25, 2020 at 6:19 PM
    #1715
    shane100700

    shane100700 Bed, Bath & Beyond Crawler

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    It was more meant as a means to get the most bang for your buck. Resister with the site so you can get 40-60% off major brands. I’ve bought all my vortex stuff from there and it’s been a huge savings.

    I view the diamondback as more of a entry level scope. Unless you really only using it for hunting, I feel like you’ll outgrow it rather quickly. Let us know what your needs/wants from a scope is. We know 6.5 creed is the caliber. What’s your intended distance? For basic fun shooting at distance? (What I’m more likely to do). Beginner competitions? (Lots of dudes here to help with this). Do you want exposed turrets? Mils, MOA?

    Budget?!


    Anyone feel free to add what I missed, I’m sure there’s stuff I did.

    More of a moderate distance plinker and short range AR guy. Those with far more long range experience, feel free to add to. :thumbsup:
     
  16. Mar 25, 2020 at 6:19 PM
    #1716
    Rawdoggy

    Rawdoggy Well-Known Member

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    Yes I do want to dial, and really stretch it. What do you recommend I take a look at?

    wont let me quote another for some reason. But to respond to the post above mine. Yes more so of basic fun long distance. Going to hunt some as well, but just starting out. And I don’t need to drop 1,000 on a scope that I won’t even know how to use, if that makes sense.
     
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  17. Mar 25, 2020 at 6:32 PM
    #1717
    dfanonymous

    dfanonymous Well-Known Member

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    Then if you’re looking to do that, I wouldn’t go anything less than a PST gen 1 or 2. Your preference of reticle. Simply because they work. Same thing with the SWFA series, they simply work mechanically in the cheapest price range. I’ve played with and tested out with a 100y mil sniperhide tall target and the arken ep4 is pretty legit too. About all of these are around or below $600
     
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  18. Mar 25, 2020 at 6:41 PM
    #1718
    shane100700

    shane100700 Bed, Bath & Beyond Crawler

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    @Rawdoggy

    Just a quick screen capture. Not trying pimp this specific site as much as help you get the best bang for your buck. I’ve rarely found better pricing for vets and first responders. I have no experience with SWFA, but I’ve always been happy with Vortex myself.

    BD5311F5-65C8-43F2-BC58-EA8AAADCE30A.jpg
     
  19. Mar 25, 2020 at 6:58 PM
    #1719
    EubeenHadd

    EubeenHadd Bit of a derp

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    Regarding SWFA and Vortex: I will always rep SWFA for being a mid-tier optic at entry level price due to optical quality and bomb-proof build. My 10x MIL/MIL has been a fantastic optic. However, LE/MIL discount means you can get Vortex options for similar prices that have better glass, more features, and a warranty second to none. It really doesn't make sense to buy an SWFA SS when Viper PST's aren't much more money and are truly much more optic.
     
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  20. Mar 25, 2020 at 7:43 PM
    #1720
    dfanonymous

    dfanonymous Well-Known Member

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    Depends what you value. Swfa’s have by far more internal travel. More than some 34mm tubes. Eye box is bigger than the vortex gen 1 so is eye relief.
    If you value illumination, a zero stop and Christmas tree reticle option and warranty, vortex for sure. Pst gen 2 is still about $730 even on ExpertVoice and seems to be out of stock. So you still pay for the up to date features. Hence why I don’t like to try to spend people’s money. You pay to play. Once you decide to get in 1000y and beyond then you need a rangefinder that will make it that far reliably and ballistic software. Then you start dropping a grand on bipods, bags a tripods. Then you start handloading to control ES, then your wife divorces you for depleting the savings.
     

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