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Long Travel BS Thread

Discussion in 'Long Travel Suspension' started by amaes, Aug 20, 2010.

  1. Jan 22, 2023 at 4:07 PM
    Dayman Karate

    Dayman Karate Fighter of the night man, champion of the sun

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    Wow that’s pricey haha
     
  2. Jan 24, 2023 at 12:06 PM
    GoldenTaco27

    GoldenTaco27 Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know a good thread that discusses valving of shocks? I cant seem to find any but feel like people on here would be "experts" with good intel. I was told to ask in here, despite being a peasant mid-travel.

    The reason I bring this up is because I am trying to dial in my front end of my 2.5 King Ext w/ adjusters. My neighbor showed me the art of revalving, but I assume one of the TW guys knows much more than him even. This is what I documented along the way to keep track and am mostly happy with it, but already wish I went stiffer on the compression valving.

    While doing this, I swapped springs to 650lbs to account for the armor/ AGM battery / steel bumper / etc and went from 1 1/8" preload on both sides to zero preload on passenger side and 1/4" on driver side. Going to go up another 1/4" I think, but will figure that out later. Below are tables showing what King valves their shocks at from factory versus what I did.

    upload_2023-1-24_12-2-52.jpg
     
  3. Jan 24, 2023 at 12:36 PM
    906taco

    906taco Well-Known Member

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    Never make multiple changes at once. You made 3. Spring, compression and rebound.

    What is it you are looking to get?
     
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  4. Jan 24, 2023 at 1:14 PM
    GoldenTaco27

    GoldenTaco27 Well-Known Member

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    Point taken on making one change at a time, however I just am not able to tear apart the front end multiple weekends in a row. Ultimately, I am trying to be able to handle larger bumps (or small whoops) at a higher speed.

    With factory valving, it was wayyyyyyy tooo soft on compression and too much restiction on the rebound... With that said, we did not know what most guys start with as a baseline. So this is my baseline-- pretty confident the springs were a necessity with my "prelander" setup, and honestly not as much of an increase in stiffness as expected.
     
  5. Jan 24, 2023 at 2:09 PM
    desertjunkie760

    desertjunkie760 @DesertJunkie760 (IG)

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    I'm assuming we're looking at the valve stack with the piston at the bottom? How much bleed do you have?
     
  6. Jan 24, 2023 at 2:32 PM
    906taco

    906taco Well-Known Member

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    Explain what you did with your rebound and why? Am I understanding 10’s would be the big shims and the 8’s would be the small? As mid travel these trucks really do need a bit of rebound valving to reduce how hard they top out. The top out is incredibly harsh. You’re super light on the rebound side from what I was as mid travel. But then again, it’s not a one size fits all deal. Which is why you don’t find much for resources.

    If you’re unable to take the truck apart constantly to get it right. I would suggest sending the shocks out to down south or similar so they can tune them.

    Personally, I’ve had my shocks out 6-8 times in a weekend while trying to dial things in. It takes a ton of time to get right if you’re not a pro.
     
    MI-FLoffroader likes this.
  7. Jan 24, 2023 at 3:53 PM
    GoldenTaco27

    GoldenTaco27 Well-Known Member

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    The shims were stacked

    TOP
    15-12 (comp.)
    // shock piston //
    10-8 (reb.)
    BTM

    Bleed? Is that reference to the nitrogen PSI? Sorry, first timer that leaned mostly on my neighbor who has more experience with this.
     
  8. Jan 24, 2023 at 4:02 PM
    GoldenTaco27

    GoldenTaco27 Well-Known Member

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    Correct, the only changes made from the factory valving was reducing 2 15's to 8s with the theory/suggestion of getting the droop to catch up at speed. I should get an idea of how this pans out this weekend, have only done some urban tests near my local airport's big dips. Its leaps and bounds better than original from what I have felt thus far, but still pretty damn plush. I assume the higher speed stuff will continue to be an issue.

    As far as tearing it apart 8 times in a weekend, thats awesome and for sure the way to go, but unfortunately that will have to be stretched out over the course of a couple months. Instant satisfaction would be great, but mine will have to be a work in progress.
     
  9. Jan 24, 2023 at 4:25 PM
    906taco

    906taco Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, going down to 8’s wasn’t the right move.

    starting with the biggest, try going 10,10,12,12,15,15 on rebound. See how that goes for you.

    On compression if it’s too soft I would try a stack of straight 15’s to see if it improves. If it’s still too soft go to 20’s on the 2 biggest.
     
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  10. Jan 24, 2023 at 5:03 PM
    GoldenTaco27

    GoldenTaco27 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds fair, and hence why I posted. Being that I'm only going off my neighbors knowledge and the little I know, I am open to all constructive criticism. Obviously a midtravel setup with potentially drastic different curb weight, a lot of variables inbetween me and a LT setup.

    I am currently on Camburg's list to have their Trail Series +2" setup (basically a faux LT-- utilizes midtravel shocks for 13" of travel) installed sometime in March, but since rebuilding these fronts, I see the huge benefit of spending the extra cash and go full LT with bypasses. So I am most likely furloughing the Trail Series and saving some more to go all the way.
     
  11. Jan 24, 2023 at 5:32 PM
    erok81

    erok81 Well-Known Member

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    Their race kit is only an extra inch. So that’s pretty good. I was curious when you said 13” since that’s what my LT kit is. Was surprised when the +2” was the same. :rofl:
     
  12. Jan 24, 2023 at 5:47 PM
    GoldenTaco27

    GoldenTaco27 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that’s what they are claiming
     
  13. Jan 24, 2023 at 7:15 PM
    desertjunkie760

    desertjunkie760 @DesertJunkie760 (IG)

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    Bleed is the amount of fluid you allow to bypass the main piston & valving. This effects both circuits in the shock (compression & rebound). Typically bleed is created by holes drilled in the main piston.

    Im going to assume you have two bleed holes open, probably in the realm of .098” holes but if may vary slightly per manufacturer.

    What you’re likely going to run into is trying to find the balance of ride quality and damping control for harder hits. Pursing increased damping for whoops, etc will typically create harshness is other areas, assuming you’re intending to daily or street drive this truck. Finding a balance is tricky when using a single shock and no bypass technology of any sort. That’s what you’re trying to achieve by running a flutter, which creates other unwanted characteristics.

    @906taco brings up a valid point though about harsh top outs with an MT setup. This is common due to the limitation of travel. Just something to be aware of. You’ve already increased spring rate & preload which will already generate more force. You may want to consider adding limit straps
     
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  14. Jan 24, 2023 at 9:00 PM
    BrownMike

    BrownMike Well-Known Member

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    Flutters are supposed to help with the small chatter, correct? What are the unwanted affects?
     
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  15. Jan 24, 2023 at 9:33 PM
    erok81

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    Is 0.098” really the common size for bleed holes? I couldn’t find this info anywhere when I drilled mine. I used 0.070” (number 50 I think) and it was bigger than the stock single bleed that was there.
     
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  16. Jan 25, 2023 at 3:12 AM
    906taco

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    Yes. .098 is the size of the factory king bleeds for coilovers. The bypasses I believe are a single .060 or so.

    Flutter can hurt high speed valving by allowing too much flow.

    Bleed, done right will have very negligible impact on the high speed.

    As mid travel, I had my best luck with all 3 bleeds open and I do believe that’s how they come from king. But again it varies for everybody.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2023
  17. Jan 25, 2023 at 8:20 AM
    desertjunkie760

    desertjunkie760 @DesertJunkie760 (IG)

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    Yes, standard bleed in a Fox 2.5"+ C/O or similar shock is 2x .098" bleed holes. Bypass are 1x.052".

    Pretty much this. A flutter can induce too much flow and cause you to blow through too much travel. You can play with the valves to make it work for the purpose but nothing comes without a cost. I've had luck with flutters when it comes to ride quality in a single shock.
     
  18. Jan 25, 2023 at 8:56 AM
    906taco

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    Big thing is, the thickness of the shims aren’t the only variable in tuning.

    Overall stack height plays a big roll as well. It dictates how much the shims can actually open. Especially on the compression side since there is a backer plate.

    Bleed is used for fine tuning small chop and really only functions on low speed or small movement like washboard. On the high speed side, you’re going to direct more through the piston and valving since bleed holes can only flow so much.

    For mid travel, I had tremendous luck with a rate plate setup and lots of bleed. But again; it takes time. Rate plates can be challenging.
     
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  19. Jan 25, 2023 at 9:31 AM
    GoldenTaco27

    GoldenTaco27 Well-Known Member

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    How would you increase bleed on the piston? Are you essentially fabricating it or sourcing a new piston altogether?

    Side note... I am surprised that I cant find any info on what stacks Accutune is utilizing. I am going to do my rear shocks (recently purchased from Accutune) to stiffen them up but would like to know what they utilize prior to popping them open. I understand that they wouldnt advertise it to keep it somewhat proprietary, but I know I am not the first to open these up.
     
  20. Jan 25, 2023 at 9:49 AM
    desertjunkie760

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    It takes a lot of time and development to come up with a valve code that works. Companies that are in the business of doing just this aren't going to disclose their valving codes for everyone to copy as they have a lot of time invested into the process. You can of course take the shock apart and spec the valving, but not everyone has that capability, time, or desire.
     
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