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Long Travel information.

Discussion in 'Long Travel Suspension' started by mjp2, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Nov 12, 2009 at 9:24 PM
    #41
    Rippin101

    Rippin101 Well-Known Member

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  2. Nov 12, 2009 at 9:26 PM
    #42
    dysfunctnlretard

    dysfunctnlretard Hi

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    nice. now given that Ill be hitting turns at high speeds, I probably wouldnt want the 3.5" of lift right? Lower center of gravity=better balance and turning ability?
     
  3. Nov 12, 2009 at 9:27 PM
    #43
    blackhawke88

    blackhawke88 wo ai ni bao bei ^_^

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    ^ definitely, the lower the better
     
  4. Nov 12, 2009 at 9:30 PM
    #44
    sandman427

    sandman427 KR FAB

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    thanks boss... where were u 5 months ago haha....
     
  5. Nov 12, 2009 at 9:30 PM
    #45
    dysfunctnlretard

    dysfunctnlretard Hi

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    nice. thanks. Ill probably skip the spindles now then, and Just go for some coilovers preloaded at 2.5.
     
  6. Nov 18, 2009 at 4:48 PM
    #46
    The End

    The End Support our troops!

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    I have a couple questions. If I get the Engage LT kit can I stay with a 16 inch rim? It keeps the stock spindles right, so are they going to be strong enough?
     
  7. Nov 19, 2009 at 7:36 AM
    #47
    mjp2

    mjp2 [OP] Living vicariously though myself Thor

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    Milton Juevos Portimous II
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    The wheels should work fine, and you'll definitely want to gusset those spindles.

    Go through the "Generalities" section in the first post for a decent list of things likely to break/in need of reinforcement.
     
  8. Nov 19, 2009 at 7:39 AM
    #48
    JDMcQ

    JDMcQ Well-Known Member

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    Mike, since your truck is almost finished (again), do you have any interest in buying me a LT system and installing it on my truck?
     
  9. Nov 19, 2009 at 8:48 AM
    #49
    mjp2

    mjp2 [OP] Living vicariously though myself Thor

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    I can assist with the install but the expense part is ALL you. :D

    Speaking of almost finished, I drove it out of the garage last night! Installed the new axles, UCA uniball, and new upper UCA bolt along with the new brake system and it looks promising.

    My next issue is the clutch switch. I have to use the clutch start cancel button to start the truck because the sensor no longer notices when the clutch is depressed. Not a big deal except that it won't switch into 4wd-low. Not a big deal in the desert but definitely needed when crawling around here.
     
  10. Nov 19, 2009 at 8:49 AM
    #50
    JDMcQ

    JDMcQ Well-Known Member

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    But, Christmas is coming!
     
  11. Dec 11, 2009 at 10:26 AM
    #51
    Single6

    Single6 Active Member

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    2006 Tacoma 4x4 Front & Rear Long-Travel
    DMZ Custom Build - Front: Total Chaos Long-Travel (13.5") Suspension, TC Extended Axles, Reinforced Spindles & Alignment Cam Tabs, Limit Straps, SS Brake Lines, TC Specification 8x2.5 King Coilovers/Springs, Secondary Gusseted Shock Hoops, TC Specification 8x2.5 King 3-Tube Bypass Remote Reservoir Shocks, Reinforced Motor Mounts, Pre-Runner Bumper & Front/Under-Engine Skid Plates, SS Radiator Guards, Aux. Lighting/Breaker Panel/Wiring, VisionX HID 8.7" Round 50w. Lamps, VisionX Reflex 9" LEDs, OEM HID Headlight Conversion, Glassworks Fiberglass Fenders, DMZ Stealth Antenna, DMZ Custom Build - Rear: Custom Spring-Under Conversion & Perimeter Bed/Shock Cage (16" travel), DMZ Spec. Deaver LT Springs, Plated & Boxed Rear Frame, King 16x2.5 4-Tube Piggy-Back Reservoir Bypass Shocks, 2x2 King Bump Stops, Bed Shock Shields, Limit Straps, SS Brake Lines, Glassworks Fiberglass Bedsides, Aluminum Billet Wheel Spacers, Allied 16x8 Forged Monster Wheels, OMF Beadlock Conversion, Integrated TPMS
    Thank you - I read your comprehensive outline on LT(Long-Travel) systems. I have 2006 Tacoma Quad Cab 4x4 which I intend to convert, both front and rear, to LT. I have done a substantial amount of research which included visiting Camburg, Total Chaos, and also DMZ to look at the installs. I want to visit Engage, but have not as yet. Unfortunately, I have neither been able to ride in a Tacoma which has the front LT system, nor even had the opportunity to speak to an owner of a Tacoma which has on of the various LT systems installed. This is keeping me from finalizing my plans.

    After speaking with numerous sales people and installers about the front LT system, it is remarkable for the diverse opinions individuals have on these systems and components. I will list them below as applying to my 2006 4x4 Tacoma, and perhaps you can comment on them. Perhaps, there are others owners of LT systems in TacomaWorld that would comment from personal experience:

    Camburg uses 1.25" Uniballs which articulate more than 1" Uniballs allowing for a stated 14" of useable travel. The lower A-arms use Uniballs as opposed to bushings with zirks. One can also upgrade to Heim attachments on the upper A-arms. What I have heard is that the 14" useable travel is exaggerated because the wheel will impact the fender-well before the 14"" of travel is used up on compression. As an aside, I have been told that stated travel numbers tend to be suspect since it is a primary sales metric in customer decisions. Furthermore, I have been told that, due to the lack of bushings on the lower A-arms, much more road and mechanical noise is heard by the driver, and more vibration transferred through the steering. I have been this is particularly annoying when using front by-pass shocks since the valve clicking is prominantly heard in the cab with this arrangement. On the flip side, the Uniball and Heim components would appear to be stronger and more reliable over a longer service life. Notwithstanding, Uniballs apparently do wear, primarily due to exposure to grit, but do not require lubrication and would likely last longer than the bushings.

    Total Chaos offers a system similar to Camburg, but with 1" uniballs yielding a stated 13" of travel for a 4x4 Tacoma. TC has chosen bushings with zirks on the lower and upper A-arm with Heims as an option on the upper A-arms. Here I have been told that this system produces less road noise and vibration - another said that the bushings make squishy sounds, and it seems less tight. Comments have been made that the TC system, due to the bushings, present alignment issues, conversely the Camburg system does not. Everyone obviously feels strongly about their products, but there are differences and trade-offs. I am looking to learn those differences and trade-offs so the project's expectations are realized and there are no surprises.

    Another issue which seems somewhat controversial concerns shock manufacturers. I have been using King (PreRunner line) for some time, and although their performance is excellent, I've not been so happy with other aspects. The rods are showing some oxidation (live near the ocean), the seals show slight weepage, and the hose connection to the shock body is not the best design. I have been told Fox uses the same quality race seals on all their units, unlike King which uses different seals for the racing line and the PreRunner shock lines. I have been told that Fox uses Stainless Steel rods (not confirmed) as opposed to a heavy plated rods as King does. The hose connection is superior on the Fox. I also understand Fox uses Eibachs springs which, I am told, are superior to in-house/proprietary coil springs. I would be interested to learn from others what their experiences and thoughts are on these units. I anticipate using, per side, on the LT front one 2.5" coilover (8" stroke) with a 600 lb spring, and one 2.5" by-pass shock (8" stroke).

    Clearly, the rear on the Tacoma needs more work than the front suspension system. I am considering a DMZ built 16-17" LT rear system using 18" bypass shocks and bumpstops. DMZ fabricates an intelligently designed perimeter frame for mounting the LT shocks through the rear bed which infringes minimally on the bed area allowing for an estimated 85-90% usage of the payload area on a short bed. Usage of the bed for payload is essential, since I do quite a bit of remote camping. I still need to look into the Engage system which, I gather from your LT outline, allows full use of the bed.

    Has anyone had actual problem with motor mounts cracking on the 2006 Tacoma 4x4s?

    Finally, does anyone know of an improved brake system/solution for the front and rear of the 05+ Tacomas that would be compatable with the LT system, particularly the front brakes. With all do respect to Toyota, the front brakes are less than confidence inspiring. That is irrespective of he ABS system which I will be rewiring with an on/off switch.

    Any comments regarding off-road lighting: HID vs. halogen, Hella vs. PIAA vs. etc.??? That would be welcome also.

    Any and all constructive comments from the Tacoma fraternity would be greatly appreciated and in as much detail as you care to write.

    Thank you,

    Single6
     
  12. Dec 11, 2009 at 10:38 AM
    #52
    mjp2

    mjp2 [OP] Living vicariously though myself Thor

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    Nice first post. :) I'm short on time at the moment so I'll answer a few of your questions quickly.

    Motor mounts have absolutely caved in the frame on some '06 Tacomas.

    I've been told that build quality for shock manufacturers goes in this order from best to not-quite-as-best: Bilstein, King Race series, Fox, King Prerunner series.

    LT rear leafs will dramatically decrease your carrying capacity. Don't expect to tow or haul much after the conversion.

    Front brakes can easily be upgraded. Call Edwin at RaceShopper.com and order a set of SP Performance slotted rotors and Hawk pads. Then get some stainless steel braided brake lines for the front. Install, bleed the whole system, adjust the rear drum brakes as needed, and enjoy.

    Expect to cut and trim all kinds of stuff for clearance. If the fenderwells get in the way and you need the travel, scrap 'em. If you're running 33" or better tires you'll probably have to trim and reinforce your body mounts. To get the most travel you'll end up losing your stock bumpstops and replacing them with either air bumps or allowing the bypass shocks to act as hydraulic bumpstops.
     
  13. Dec 11, 2009 at 3:27 PM
    #53
    dysfunctnlretard

    dysfunctnlretard Hi

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    I heard mjp2 was in the process of doing a write up for the rear too... Apparently he's gonna explain some of the different systems out there like the cantilever, spring under, and some versions of a caged rear :anonymous:
     
  14. Dec 12, 2009 at 2:04 PM
    #54
    bajamoon

    bajamoon Well-Known Member

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    you have never seen the cantilever lt, i can post a link from ct, cool but would rather have a bed cage and i think it would be easier to tune the shocks.



    wooot 3000 posts bitches lol
     
  15. Dec 12, 2009 at 2:56 PM
    #55
    dysfunctnlretard

    dysfunctnlretard Hi

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    I don't know what I've seen. I've seen a few different setups, some with caged rears, others with shocks mounted under the bed, some with most of the bed there but shocks sticking out of the corners, just not sure what is what and what the benefits/disadvantages are with each.
     
  16. Dec 12, 2009 at 3:28 PM
    #56
    bajamoon

    bajamoon Well-Known Member

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  17. Dec 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM
    #57
    dysfunctnlretard

    dysfunctnlretard Hi

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    Yea I've seen that setup, my question is where exactly do the shocks go with that system? And also, what system runs the trailing arms and allows for the use of coilovers in the rear (sometimes secondary shocks are sued too)
     
  18. Dec 12, 2009 at 9:49 PM
    #58
    bajamoon

    bajamoon Well-Known Member

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    you don't use coilovers with that system, just bypass shocks like you would with a bed cage, they mount with the length of the bed.so the cantilever attached the axle just turns like a clock until it hits bumps.
     
  19. Dec 14, 2009 at 5:40 AM
    #59
    mjp2

    mjp2 [OP] Living vicariously though myself Thor

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    That would be a full custom setup. Typically a 3- or 4-link design with the trailing arm pivots mounted way forward on the truck. Once you go that route you're into some serious fabrication as it typically involves chopping and/or boxing the frame, full rear cage, moving the fuel tank (required for clearance), custom links on the rear axle (usually a completely custom axle), etc.

    Look into the Class 6, Class 7, and Class 1400 race trucks and you'll start to get an idea of how much is involved.
     
  20. Dec 30, 2009 at 8:28 AM
    #60
    woody6047

    woody6047 McGrubber

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    i want you to know that this thread has officially sold me on getting a LT system, now the only question i have is which one to get? it will be driven often on the road, and i just got an allpro front bumper, would i have to remove that?
     
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