Looking for guidance on GVWR, Payload and Towing

Hey TW!

I was hoping to get some guidance on my setup and which direction I should go for towing a travel trailer and handling the extra weight in my truck.

Here are my details:

• 2017 Toyota Tacoma DCLB TRD Off-road
• My experience towing is very minimal
• Current vehicle weight is 4920lbs empty with 3/4 tank of gas and Snugtop camper shell (~200lbs). So I have about 700lbs left before I’m at GVWR. Camper shell stays on the vehicle 100% of the time.
• Other than the camper shell, vehicle is stock
• I’ll be doing new tires soon, but only slightly larger than stock (265/70R17 or 255/75R17) on 17 x 7” wheels
• We are a family of 4 with a dog and the truck is our road trip/camping/adventure mobile, plus my weekend warrior mountain bike rig. This is the typical loading for camping/road tripping:
  • 2 adults and 2 kids (3yo and 5yo) + Dog: 550lbs (allows some room for “growth”)
  • Gear: 300lbs
  • Bike rack and bikes on hitch mount: 150lbs
  • Total Payload: 1000lbs, but let’s say 1100lbs for margin
• We are not currently towing, but we’d like to get a medium-ish travel trailer in the future. Most likely ~3500lb trailer with a 350-450lb tongue weight. This would remove 200lbs from gear weight above (still would have 100lbs of gear) and remove the 150lbs of bike weight, so we’d still be at 1000-1100lbs payload.
• Basically we would be at about 400lbs over GVWR when towing or fully loaded with gear

• Trailers we are considering:
  • Escape 19’ (https://escapetrailer.com/escape-19-specs/): 3250lbs dry, 5000lbs GVWR
  • Taxa Mantis (https://taxaoutdoors.com/habitats/mantis/#specs): 2972lbs dry, 4200lbs GVWR
  • Any other ~3000lb trailers

Questions and where I could use help:

• Does any of my thinking above seem inaccurate? Or am I missing something?
• Do I just need to accept I’m in the wrong truck and buy a Tundra/F-150? I really do love my Tacoma. The physical size is great, it’s easy to drive, looks good, and it’s paid for. Plus living in CA the cost of vehicle switching would probably be about $4k to just cover taxes and fees plus any difference in vehicle price. This could help to justify putting money into my current truck if I can make it work.
• I know I cannot increase the GVWR of my truck, but does upgrading anything get me closer to making my scenario work? Things I’ve considered:
  • Brake controller (obviously) and WDH
  • Airbags and/or new leaf springs
  • D or E rated tires
  • OVtune
  • Re-gear to 4.88s
  • Larger transmission cooler
  • Upgrading front brakes
• What would any of you do in my situation?

Thanks for the help and any guidance you can provide!

 

You can upgrade the suspension and it will handle the weight fine. Technically legal - not really, but you'll still be well within the margins of safety. If removing the topper is an option you'll free up some weight as well.

A larger truck will haul your stuff easier, tow the trailer better and get better gas mileage doing it. You mentioned the $4k added cost in taxes but you're considering spending $1000ish on new tires, $1000ish in rear suspension, $2000ish in gears, and more for tune, cooler, etc. By the time you're done you'd have paid the difference that would've put you in a new truck designed for that you want to do.

 

Yep, thanks and good perspective. I’d really like to keep the topper. It’s helpful with my dog and it’s nice to have a somewhat secure place to lock up a bike or 2. A new truck would need a topper as well

Tires are getting close to end of life, but point taken on having to dump money into my current rig to get it close to right. My hope was I’d end up with the capabilities I really need but in the size truck I want to drive.

 

You can do it and the truck won't explode, it just won't be within legal limits. In this picture my truck weighed 6480lbs without me and my dog in it, so about 6700lbs total. That's not including the hitch weight of the trailer with the jeep on it that I didn't weigh but was roughly 3500lbs probably. I drove that from AK to WA without a single problem.

A larger truck would've been easier and probably a little safer but after I dropped the trailer off I then went and drove the trans america trail from the Pacific to Colorado which would've been much harder in the bigger truck.

 

Sweet setup and thanks for sharing! I appreciate the insight. It’s tough when I want my truck to do everything and be everything.

 

Worth noting - people take off the stock wheels and put them on craigslist left and right. Especially in CA. You can snag a new set w/ rims and TPMS for usually 1k, and then sell your spent set for about 500. Net 500$ new tires. People uptrim to the OR or Pro and pull off everything they paid for all the time. if the stock tires can handle what you're doing, then you could do this easily. I am debating but will likely do this. The stock tires have taken on everything I've thrown at them and want to throw at a daily driver that needs to get me to work on Monday morning.

PS - the same above principal (people take off stockies and replace immediately) also applies to almost every full size pick-em-up too, IE: An F150, which sounds like your use case justifies a full size there rather than restraining yourself to a Tacoma.

But - your money, your call, I don't pay your bills you can do whatever you want. If I was doing that load out constantly, I'd be in a full size. If it's once a year for 100 miles, I'd stick to the Tacoma, for example.

 

Yeah, I guess I’m one of those guys. I have 5x 17” TRD Pro rims sitting in my garage that I bought when Toyota was running the 40% off sale that I’ve been waiting to mount once my stock tires wore out. So I’d be selling the stock wheels to offset the new tire cost. Or selling the truck and wheels to offset the new truck cost.

 

You will be technically a little over weight but I wouldn’t give it a second thought. You would only have to worry about that if you had an accident. Then authorities would basically just look at the trailer weight. Ain’t no one going to weigh you, spouse, kids and dog nor some minor equipment in the back of the truck. I’d probably upgrade the rear leafs, possibly get air bags and a wdh. When you look for a trailer try to find the lightest possibly that fits your needs.
One of the main concerns when towing over weight is stopping ability. As long as the trailer has good brakes and you are only talking a couple hundred pounds over you should have zero problems. In your case scenario I’d do it in a minute.

 

Nice - see, you at least used your stuff that you bought!

Realistically nobody is going to know you're over GVWR even if you get pulled over, if you're close to the limits. If you're trying to move an oversize load modular house with a tacoma, that would be sort of easy to spot. It would come up if there was ever a collision or incident, THEN it would get tacked on as a note or citation at that point.

 

Thanks guys. I appreciate your comments. I’m feeling like I’m right on the edge of acceptable. Any more and it’d be a half ton for sure and any less there’d be no issue with my Tacoma.

 

There has never been any litigation against someone pulling a travel trailer that was a thousand pounds over weight.

1. Brake controller (obviously) and WDH with sway control
   
2. E rated tires When you buy tires
3. new leaf springs/shocks and maybe new front springs/shock

I would do the first 2 and the last one is a maybe. You don't need a transmission cooler, you just need a way to monitor temps.

Your 6 cylinder will work hard but it will get you where you want to go. Give it a break when it needs it. You will get the same mileage in a turbo 6, a 6 or a v8. Driving speed and style is about the only thing that will change that. A v8 and the lower revs will make for a more relaxed drive but use what you got and make that decision later.

Just take it easy don't try to keep up with traffic all the time. Just take things easy. You're going camping.


I see you have a Mantis on your list. I don't have a ton of comments on that, but I will say rolling into camp and having as little to pull out and setup is a good thing. Less moving parts is a good thing.

The escape is a killer choice. You will be able to hand that down to your grandkids. Lifetime camper

I am going to put a plug in for a 19ft Airstream. The community aspect of Airstream is pretty cool. The design is gorgeous and no one has windows as good. Lifetime camper
https://www.airstream.com/travel-trailers/bambi/floorplans/19cb/

Another 4 season lifetime camper
https://olivertraveltrailers.com/travel-trailers/legacy-elite/

 

Yeah, I was going to order a ScanGauge for temp monitoring.

I liked the concept of the Taxa being more minimal but still meeting our needs. It's light weight, can fit in the garage, and has the smaller frontal area with the collapsible roof. But I agree the extra setup and the moving parts could be a pain. The quality also seems a little suspect from what I've read and it it seems to cost about 30% more than it should. I think it's little too hipster for us and we were leaning away from it.

My dad has a 23' Airstream and the thing is sweet. I hadn't really considered AS for us due to cost and weight, but I'll look a little harder at that 19' Bambi.

I am definitely a fan of Olivers! Also a little spendy, but the quality looks to be among the best. They just don't seem to sleep 4 very well (on either model they make).

Right now, we're leaning pretty strongly towards the Escape. It just seems to check all of our boxes and the price is easier to justify for us.

I like your mentality to towing and camping. It's a good reminder to keep things relaxed. I have my M-F job for all the stress I need.

 

Well that is cool. Have you talked to him much about it? There are a lot of Airstream specific events. If your pops is very involved it might be a fun way to get in some more quality time. Also, the courtesy parking program is a pretty cool benefit. You are right, even a used Airstream is $. If you do the math on Airstream ownership is usually comes out to less then half the cost of ownership of a comparable travel trailer, like a forest river rpod.

The escape is a really great trailer. I love seeing these out there. Just like the AS, the low cost of maintenance and the high resale values (from the superior exterior build quality) will result in a very wallet friendly travel trailer.

You are on the right track. Keep us posted with what you get.

 

GVWR is important, but a limiting factor is likely the GCVWR (Gross COMBINED Vehicle Weight Rating). Tacomas have a GCVWR around 11,100 lbs.

Meaning, your complete truck, trailer, people, gear, cargo is likely over the GCVWR.

This limit is what the truck is designed to handle with acceleration, braking, turning, handling while staying controllable in the event of an emergency.

IMHO, I think you are over.

Good Luck.

 

Where do you find the GCVWR for the specific truck? In the manual? Door sticker just has a GVWR (5600lbs) and GAWR for front and rear axles.

If is is around 11k lbs, I figure GVWR will still be the limiting factor. I'm looking to be about 5700lbs truck weight (5000lbs truck + 700lbs people and stuff) plus a ~4000lb loaded trailer, so right around 10k lbs total.

Edit: Just confirmed in my manual the GCWR for my truck is 11330lbs and TWR is 6400lbs in my configuration

 

Yeah, we talk a bunch. He loves it. He isn't into the events, but he's towed it all over the states and is really enjoying phasing into retirement with it. He has a 2015 F-150 3.5EB as a tow rig, and the combo is working out really well for him.

 

Guessing at Limits and weights is the mother of all FUps when towing.

No need for me to relate my experience or events I've witnessed. Just know, over weight is a recipe for bad things.


Good Luck.

Be smart, be wise, be safe.

 

Ok, thanks for the help and the advice.

 

I would like to hear your story of someone who was slightly over weight who had a tragedy happen.

My question is did that person do their do diligence to attempt to tow safely? Like WD and sway control with a brake controller and possible HD suspension upgrades? I just want to make sure you are comparing the OP to a similar situation.

 

overload is overload.....don't really matter if 100 lb or 1000 lb.

Good luck pulling overloaded. Hope you never experience an emergency needing to stop suddenly or swerve to avoid.

Remember, at 60 mph you are traveling 88 ft/sec. Your reaction time is roughly 0.3 seconds before you can execute a maneuver, a distance of nearly 27 ft before you can brake. Now, add the extra distance to stop the overload. Soon, the 100 foot gap between you and the car in front of you is shrinking faster than you are stopping........

If you run faster than 60 mph, then the situation becomes worse very quickly.

When you run overload, you place yourself and other drivers at higher risk.


Drive smart, pull safe.