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Lucario Runner's Supercharged going to Turbo JDM build.

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Builds (2005-2015)' started by Lucario Runner, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. Dec 3, 2022 at 4:24 PM
    #1281
    o0opackersfano0o

    o0opackersfano0o Well-Known Member

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    Tony
    North Berwick, ME
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    2005 xrunner swb
    Magnuson supercharger, 2.6 quick change pulley, 76mm throttle body, Doug thorley long tubes, urd y pipe, wot box with 2 step, 170 thermostat, airaid intake, urd short throw, djm 3/4
  2. Dec 4, 2022 at 12:16 PM
    #1282
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    It comes along. All NE timing cover bolts swapped. Oil pans on. Going to fix up a booger by a dowel pin, to give it back some strength. Then time to drop it in the engine bay.

    20221204_140541.jpg
     
  3. Dec 4, 2022 at 4:26 PM
    #1283
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner [OP] Resident Truck/SUV racer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
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    #59067
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    7,191
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
    Vehicle:
    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    IMG_20221203_175121.jpg
    IMG_20221203_175537.jpg
    Had to fix a thread with a helicoil.
    IMG_20221204_120615.jpg
    IMG_20221204_120630.jpg
    Pan swap to 4x4 pan.
    IMG_20221204_140032.jpg
    Added more material back to block.
    IMG_20221204_182036.jpg
    Engine in. Lots of small things like fixing the lower oil pan for straightness, hardware swap, etc but now it's the how stretch.
     
  4. Dec 4, 2022 at 7:17 PM
    #1284
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
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    #22958
    Messages:
    26,412
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tor
    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Forgot to take a picture of the before, but it wasnt bad.

    20221204_145125.jpg

    20221204_150017.jpg
     
    not_nick, BassAckwards and iwashmycar like this.
  5. Dec 6, 2022 at 6:42 AM
    #1285
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
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    #22958
    Messages:
    26,412
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tor
    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Late last night. She sailed away.

    20221205_213331.jpg

    20221205_222644.jpg
     
  6. Dec 6, 2022 at 6:43 AM
    #1286
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Member:
    #22958
    Messages:
    26,412
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tor
    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Encountered one problem at first start-up. A leaking injector o-ring. Some quick work, and we had it corrected and back together.
     
  7. Dec 6, 2022 at 11:50 AM
    #1287
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner [OP] Resident Truck/SUV racer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
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    #59067
    Messages:
    7,191
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    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
    Vehicle:
    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    That was annoying. Lol. So many roadkill moments with this swap but Torspd and I got it done with some help from our friends Dan and Mike. Truck made the trip home ok on @JustDSM base tune he sent. Very impressive, now it's time to refine the tune and make some power.
     
    Torspd[QUOTED] and SUMOTNK like this.
  8. Dec 6, 2022 at 9:21 PM
    #1288
    garciav

    garciav Well-Known Member

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    Houston, TX
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    2013 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 6MT
    TRD SC,HPTuners
    did the aluminum thermostat work with the supercharger belt routing ?
     
  9. Dec 7, 2022 at 5:12 AM
    #1289
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

    Joined:
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    Male
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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    We didn't get to install it unfortunately. The 170° hadn't arrived in time.
     
  10. Dec 11, 2022 at 6:05 PM
    #1290
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner [OP] Resident Truck/SUV racer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
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    #59067
    Messages:
    7,191
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
    Vehicle:
    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    Not much of an update on the truck, just has tiny headaches post engine swap, most due to stuff being special ordered and me not being at 100%. I have an annoying oil drain plug leak with a new crush washer but that's better than an oil pan leak. Lol. So I got some copper m12 crush washers from the parts store as that's all they had. I am entertaining the idea of running a motorcycle drain plug as they have both an oring and crush washer but haven't found any in m12 x 1.25. Other option is perhaps a new plug. I'll see how just replacing the crush washer does. Also had some coolant leaks not too terrible at least on the main hoses. The bitch one is the top hose for the oil cooler, 15778-31010, it's special order and no one in the aftermarket makes them. Also it seems the constant tension clamp has lost its tension so I'll need a new one of those. I've patched it but getting a worm gear clamp however the tail will hit the idler for the super charger so I needed to bend the tail to not make contact.
    IMG_20221211_183818.jpg
    IMG_20221211_183822.jpg
    IMG_20221211_184054.jpg
    Will also need to invest in a engine hoist as the hook up I thought I had didn't have one. No big. Overall no major issues.
     
    not_nick likes this.
  11. Dec 11, 2022 at 6:14 PM
    #1291
    Coupe

    Coupe Well-Known Member

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    08 X-Runner
    Lots baby!
    Lucario Runner[OP] likes this.
  12. Dec 11, 2022 at 7:12 PM
    #1292
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
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    #22958
    Messages:
    26,412
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tor
    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
  13. Dec 12, 2022 at 4:47 AM
    #1293
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner [OP] Resident Truck/SUV racer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
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    #59067
    Messages:
    7,191
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
    Vehicle:
    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    Screenshot_20221212-103312.jpg
    Lame af...
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
  14. Dec 12, 2022 at 8:12 AM
    #1294
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

    Joined:
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    #22958
    Messages:
    26,412
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tor
    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Got a screen shot of the tire style?
     
  15. Dec 20, 2022 at 11:09 AM
    #1295
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner [OP] Resident Truck/SUV racer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Member:
    #59067
    Messages:
    7,191
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
    Vehicle:
    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    Tires have shipped and should be here tomorrow, have an appointment for install after work.
     
  16. Dec 20, 2022 at 4:43 PM
    #1296
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner [OP] Resident Truck/SUV racer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Member:
    #59067
    Messages:
    7,191
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
    Vehicle:
    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    IMG_20221220_174510.jpg
    PSA watch those crush washer when changing your oil. Had an annoying drip post engine swap. Should be fixed with the new crush washer in.
     
  17. Dec 21, 2022 at 5:11 AM
    #1297
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

    Joined:
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    26,412
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    Male
    First Name:
    Tor
    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Pesky coated o-ring.
     
  18. Dec 21, 2022 at 3:29 PM
    #1298
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner [OP] Resident Truck/SUV racer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Member:
    #59067
    Messages:
    7,191
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
    Vehicle:
    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    IMG_20221221_172732.jpg
    Finished my rounds for today so now it's time to mod.
     
    bebo_junker and 3pooches like this.
  19. Dec 21, 2022 at 3:52 PM
    #1299
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner [OP] Resident Truck/SUV racer

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Member:
    #59067
    Messages:
    7,191
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
    Vehicle:
    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    IMG_20221221_175130.jpg
    Look full droop. Max overlanding cred achieved.
     
    SUMOTNK, Coupe and 3pooches like this.
  20. Dec 22, 2022 at 4:25 AM
    #1300
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
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    #22958
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    26,412
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    Male
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    Tor
    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Got to get a better photo with the new wheels. Hard to see them well, in that light.
     
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