Magnaflow versus Flowmaster ~ Showdown on the Dyno

As I was watching your power-slide video I was thinking "man that looks a lot like the high country in Arizona." Scrolled up and sure enough you're from Flagstaff!

 

I don't know how much the 2.25" tailpipe helped but if you could gain 2.6 hp from just a magnaflow muffler then it is actually very affordable in terms of $/hp. That muffler is $110 which means you paying around 42$/hp. I know this is a different engine but the trd 4.0 superchager costs $4300 and nets you 60hp, that's 72$/hp.

I would also guess that you're probably going to at least return to stock numbers if not lose hp from stock with the flowmaster. But that's just a guess.

 

True but he's concerned about tq

 

Even if the flowmaster is even with stock, you're better off to go with whichever muffler you prefer sound wise. Don't knock one because you might not gain 2.6 hp lol. 2.6 hp is smaller than the margin for error on a dyno. You can't calculate dollars per hp against a supercharger when the muffler change is giving you ~ 1% hp, which you'll never feel/notice, and the supercharger is giving you ~ 20% hp.

 

Why not? I'm not saying it's anything substantial and you should pick a muffler because of 2hp, also I never knocked flowmaster. But $/hp is directly comparable, doesn't matter if it's 1% or 20%. I do agree that 2 hp could be in the margin for error for a dyno, but mostly what I was saying was that the op stated that all the magnaflow gave him was sound, I was simply stating that for the amount of money invested 2 hp is a decent gain and you can't really expect much hp improvements by changing the muffler on an engine that only makes 180 hp.

 

I don't think the tailpipe helped any, it just didn't hurt. And that's a really interesting point you brought up about cost per horsepower. I'll have to figure up the cost of all my mods and compare the dyno results to a 2.7 baseline chart.

I'm glad you're guessing... it adds to the suspense.
It's exactly what I'm the most curious about. Exactly how well does the Flowmaster stack up against the stock muffler and the Magnaflow on the dyno?

We'll know soon...

I've been driving the service truck around all day at work, and it sure runs good with the Flowmaster especially right off idle. I'll be surprised if the dyno graph doesn't show good numbers right at the bottom.


Greg

 

From driving it around all day today, I LOVE the Flowmaster sound!

It makes my little 4 banger sing like a Formula 1. The tone is so smooth and pure without even the tiniest hint of rasp or rice in it. And it's loud all right... but it's a good loud.

Greg

 

Subd, I have the v6, but this is good info. I was thinking either a flow master or aero turbine 2525xl or afe

 

I only wish it made 180 hp! A stock 2TR FE 2.7 makes 159hp @ 5,200 rpm at the output shaft, not at the wheels.

A bone stock 2.7 baseline dyno turned in:

119hp @ 5,200 rpm

133 ftlbs @ 3,800 rpm

...at the rear wheels.

My latest run with:

Injen warm air intake
Tooter intake manifold spacer
LCE long tube header
Magnaflow muffler

Dynoed:

139 hp @ 4,700 rpm (cut off by speed limiter)

162 ftlbs @ 2,900 rpm

...at the rear wheels.

29 ftlbs more torque is a pretty sizeable increase. From 133 ftlbs to 162 ftlbs is 22% more torque that comes on full 900 rpms sooner, at only 2,900 rpms instead of the stock 3,800 rpms.

Yes. I haven't even been testing for peak horsepower because all the 4th gear runs are getting cut off short at about 4,700 rpms by the speed limiter.

However, the next dyno test with the Flowmaster, we're going to do at least one third gear run all the way up from 1,000 rpm up to the rev limiter just to get true peak horsepower. A third gear run won't get stopped out.


Greg

 

Jeez. This thread is REALLY making me want to ditch this stupid ricey Areo Turbine 2525 and go back to a Flowmaster muffler. I've used Flowmasters on 2 of my trucks in the past and ALWAYS loved the way they sounded.

Hmmmmmmmm decisions decisions.

So you're liking the 50 series delta flow? I would be concerned it'd be too quiet for me. Always used 40 series in the past.

 

Too late!

And to top it all off... LCE is having a 10% off sale this long 4th weekend, and that means $45 off their $450 2TR FE 2.7 long tube header. You can get one for just $405 plus shipping.

I only had my truck 6 days and I was putting one on. It still ranks as the very best mod hands down. Just don't open up your exhaust with it so you won't lose the low end.

Same here.
I'm already trying to come up with a guess just from driving it around, but subjectivity is a funny thing. Just the sound alone can easily fool me into thinking it's running better at the bottom end.

I logged the torque gains in an above post. You can see all of the results so far right there.


Greg

 

Really don't know why you assume the Flowmaster is going to cause a power loss. As long as you stay with the size same pipes (which he did) less restriction is better. We'll see what the dyno numbers say.

Oh, wait, I have some real numbers from a muffler change. But MPG numbers, not HP/TQ. Uh, don't go anywhere, lemme look. I've posted it here before . . .

OK, below is MPG before and after a muffler change. This was on a '98 F-150 with the 4.2L V6. The change was: cut out the old system just before the muffler, clamp in a 50 Series Flowmaster, and then clamp in a 45* turn-down. (yeah, I always meant to get it welded, never did. It worked fine for 14 years!). I asked Flowmaster if a turn-down is OK, they said fine as long as it is at least 12" long.



So, I plotted 10 points before the muffler change and 10 after. (I always track my MPG.) The red line is when I changed the muffler. Then I tried to draw a line through the MPGs to get a visual average. The first point after the change was lower cuz I was near the end of the tank so it was really an old muffler MPG. The next point is even lower cuz I was enjoying my new muffler, letting it rev and shifting late. Then I settled back to my routine driving. I can see a definite 1 MPG improvement.

The MPG went up probably cuz the engine didn't have to work as hard pushing out the exhaust? I never ran it on a dyno, but there was probably a measurable increase in HP/TQ.

And, it sounded great!

 

That's great, glad you are enjoying it!

I'd love to hear it live and in person someday.

 

Nothing says a "straight-through" has to perform better than a chambered muffler. Remember, it's not just a straight piece of plain pipe. It is perforated tube. Gases are going in and out of the holes, and when they come back in they can be very disruptive to the airflow. This can more restrictive than a well-designed chambered muffler.

 

Yes! I had a little spread-bore, double-pumper on my 318 Poly. Small primaries were great for quick response. You could feel when you were up against where the secondaries are about to open. Hold it there and then pop all four open at the right RPM. That was a fun carburetor!

 

You have made some nice gains for staying n/a. Any plans on the urd s/c?

 

Yuppp!! It was in a back trail going south from flagstaff to the Sedona Canyon rims!

 

No you're right the MPG is a dif with flowmaster. My truck right is getting 13.1 on average (town is shitty for MPG because of the stop and go and low speeds), my last taco was getting 13.8 on average. It's not much but if I were to live in a place that allowed better MPG it'd be a bigger change!

But it's always been an urban legend that flowmasters are called choke masters cause there's a "loss of power"... And mpg is not directly related to power, had a long talk on a thread about warm air intakes that technically lower power and gain mpg! But regardless, we shall see

 

No... my truck is a service vehicle I use daily in my business. And I like keeping it normally aspirated so as not to compromise the longevity of the engine. It's plenty responsive just as it is right now. And with the Flowmaster it sounds like it, too.

But I'll always be tweaking it here and there...


Greg

 

I'll let you know plenty of time in advance when I'll be at the dyno shop in Van Nuys. If you have the free time, you can come and watch the runs.


Greg