Manual transmission Fan Club and BS thread (All Generations Welcome)

First off... I said nothing about reliability or Toyota putting junk in the 3rd gen. Just to get that out of the way.

On my particular truck...

I work my truck probably harder than most of TacomaWorld users would. I have been driving Toyotas for 25 years and I have always pushed them pretty hard on the working end of the spectrum. The clutch in my 16 feels just like the stock clutch in every Toyota I have owned that was built after 1995. I have upgraded clutches in every Toyota I have ever owned to one with a higher clamping force pressure plates. That being said the pressure plate on my 2016 doesn’t seam to have the clamping force I am accustomed too. I have gotten the clutch hot on this truck several times in situations where the upgraded clutches I have used in the past would have just shrugged and went on with it. I will run the stock clutch until it either gives up or I no longer trust it to perform as it should for my use.

 

I burn through Toyota clutches like a MF. SF hills... fuggit.

 

Your words "The stock clutch in our trucks IMHO is not all that great." I read that as being a poor performing clutch.

If your overheating a clutch it's because your slipping it. Once the pressure plate grabs the clutch and it's holding, the clutch isn't doing anything. Unless you have increased the the engine hp to overcome the pressure plates clamping force there is no reason to change the clutch form stock.

I would also like to know how you determined that the clamping force of the '16 seems less than previous Tacomas? Hope your not assuming it's because the clutch pedal is easier to push.

 

That is true. The clutch is not anything to write home to momma about. However for the average Tacoma owner it will last probably 150-300k depending on the driver. With the way I use my truck I am pretty sure it won’t last that long for me. I’ll probably see 100k or so out of mine because of the situations I encounter.

I tow my welding trailer almost daily. The thing weighs around 3500lbs. Depends on what material I am hauling on it for the job I’m working on. I do remote location welding on high fences as a side job. I have had 2-3 times when the load of the trailer has put more strain on the drivetrain than the clutch could hold. In a clutch fully released, 2nd gear, 4low hill climb with the trailer in tow. Simply pulled through the clutch due to over loading it but would not keep traction in 1st gear on the hill. This happened two times on the same hill two separate days. Third day on that job until the finish I used my ‘85 Toyota to haul the trailer after I figured out it was not a fluke occurrence with the Tacoma. The other time I was backing a trailer up a grade. That time it was due to slipping the clutch.

As far as the clamping force of the stock pressure plate. My 1985 Toyota has a Marlin Crawler 1600# clutch in it. You can definitely tell a difference between the way it applies and the Tacoma clutch applies. It will also withstand a substantial amount more load being applied to it. I have run South Bend clutches in all of my Cummins powered trucks and they are damn near like having an on an off switch... pretty much all or nothing. Various other heavy duty and race application clutches over the years in different vehicles that it is better to have to much clutch so to speak than not enough.

 

Just randomly checked this thread and I knew I wasn't the only one! I totally agree with the last few people - there is absolutely a weak link or links with these clutches. It's stupid easy to burn the clutch doing what should be normal maneuvers. I think part of it has to do with the complete absence of torque coupled with shitty software/throttle response. I also know for a fact that the slave cylinder delay valve (I could rant for hours on how stupid this concept and the devices are) is playing a part. Living in the capitol area of "I need to merge, pull out into traffic, cut this guy off or make a K turn in the middle of a busy road as fast as possible" you either have a choice of slow as shit bogging or border-line clutch burning. Toyota calls it a clutch or slave cylinder accumulator. It's only purpose is to delay the hydraulic pressure to and from the slave cylinder which slows down the engagement and disengagement of the clutch (see why it's stupid?) On BMW's there is small valve inline with the hose to the slave cylinder, you just remove it or pay too much for modified one. Ours are integrated in a housing that's bolted to the side of the transmission. Making life a little more difficult is the location of the inlet and out ports / hydraulic lines on it. You can't just unbolt it, unscrew the lines and use a junction. I've been meaning to eliminate this unnecessary addition of shit for a while know. I have a braided hose and some adapters that I guessed at the sizes to just bypass the whole thing.


This is what it looks like, not 100% that this one is the exact part for out application.

 

I keep forgetting to measure the line and fittings when the Taco is cold. A friend has a nice double flaring tool. We need to figure out if it can do metric sizes.

 

If you go to make something with Hard Line l suggest you use NICOPP, that stuff is awesome to work with, I replaced all the lines on my Ex-GFs Sons Aztek with it.

 

Thanks for the tip. If we can get it to work, I will try to make a few extras.

I saw an earlier version of this when it was a flex line on the early 2nd Gens. I'm assuming this was done on his 3rd Gen:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/what-does-a-clutch-fluid-accumulator-do.180006/#post-3797625

See the vid in the last post.

 

The OR model doesn't have that part to the best of my knowledge... I believe it is part of the hill start assist that the sports have. You might just look into the factory OR parts for your solution.

 

Good question. I don't think it has anything to do with the hill start though. It is similar to an air hammer in house plumbing. It is easy to see it on the left side of the transmission just inboard of the cat. There is a sheet metal cover over it.



It's hard to get at all the screws on the cover when the cat is hot. All the burns on my forearms have finally healed after selling my Ural. Best lessons, pain, and all that . . .

 

It's almost impossible to really heel-toe (for me, anyway). weird angles and my foot is almost too long (I get heel drag). Also, I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure the ECU will cut the throttle if the brake is on. I'll have to try that next time I'm out, but I'm pretty sure that's correct. So I guess you could rev match while braking (with the clutch disengaged), but no braking and accelerating while going around a corner to throw the back end out. I'm with you though, @stealthmode. Rev-matching for downshifts is about as fancy as I get (and call me crazy, but I feel like that works better now than it did at first). Maybe I've just figured out the anomalies of the throttle by wire..

Heel-toe is a little silly with these, isn't it? if you're throwing your taco into a corner and trying to exit at redline on road or off, you're doing truck wrong.

ok, maybe a trophy truck...

 

You will get a pop up warning on the driver display saying accelerator and brakes depressed. I dont recall it cutting power but i did it for just a couple of seconds.

I just want to able to heel toe when enetering a corner or slowing down so I have smooth changes..cuz race car... plus i just think it sounds cool! Haha.
But thats one of the reasons why I bought MT. Have little fun

 

I'm trying to wrap my mind around "why" the heel-toe maneuver is even a thing when driving these Tacoma trucks.

Having never owned a sports car, race car, or similar, I guess it just isn't in my mindset as a requirement.

What is the intended outcome if heel-toe pedal usage?

 

Yeah I'm with you.... just don't see the point. I have owned several Supras, BMWs and GM sports cars I'm the past and seldom saw the need with them either.

 

Ricecar...
Got to show that guy in 911 on the light who is a real ricer here

 

The why of heel toe downshifting. A way to rev match downshift while at the same time braking. Is it necessary? No. Most people drive manuals their whole lives without doing it, much less know what it is.

Why do I do it? I think it's a good skill set to have. Plus, it's fun, Fun, FUN!!!
Did I mention that it's just plain fun and is so cool when you just kill a 5 to 4 to 3 to 2 sequential downshift?

Others will probably disagree. That is their right. I'm not out to convert the world. But for moi, just another great reason to drive a manual!

 

I'm sure a professional racer would have a more detailed explanation, but basically you're trying to keep engine RPMs and flywheel spinning while braking into corner so you can exit the turn at full throttle. You can also steer around the corner in a drift (rear wheel drive). Throttle "steers" toward apex by causing more rear wheel spin, brake "steers" away from apex by slowing rear wheel spin and slide.

Some pro driver should shred this dadsplain.

 

But...(gdammit), I want BIG fun. Now when's that TRD Supercharger coming out for the 3.5?

Get your asses in gear, Magnuson! Our credit cards are poised...

 

But.
But.
It's a truck.

An even better reason to drive a manual, is that you get to drive a manual I'm the dirt.

 

Couldn't have explained it better. I barely speed and dont care to go super duper fast. Its just about rowing the gears.