Manual transmission Fan Club and BS thread (All Generations Welcome)

In fairness when the truck was stopped I called it the Subaru truck because I took it on the back road technical tarmac like a madman. Also in its current form with armor and 33s and stock hearing, I'm clear and right around 20 miles per gallon

 

What you're describing here and in your subsequent texts is engine bogging. Simply not enough speed for the gear. I thought so when I first read your post, but I only took delivery on my truck last night so I was able to confirm it.

Yes it can be fixed with a tune, but also a change in driving style which you've already figured out. Nothing wrong with your truck at all. I'm guessing you haven't driven many MT cars?

 

What @StandardTaco describes, I’ve also experienced with my 2016. It’s notably absent in my 5 spd 2005. Significant pulses which subside if you lay off the throttle for a bit. It’s annoying when you’re stuck in a situation where you really want to accelerate such as a freeway on ramp or steep hill. Downshifting is one option, patience is the other, roughly equivalent results since things get smooth after 1k RPM.

I do get similar poor performance from my ‘05 in 2nd at low rpm on hills, as one might expect from a 4 cylinder engine. But no surging.

 

First, yes this is only my second MT daily driver so I only have about 5 years and change of experience daily driving a manual, with about a 12 year gap between learning on a few different MT cars and purchasing my first MT. So definitely not as experienced as many of you, but always learning.

Is bogging the same a lugging? I know it's lugging when I'm in the sub 1000 RPM range and the engine seems very un-interested in putting out any kind of effort. But at closer to 1500 RPM when it does the pulsing it feels more like a switch being flipped on and off than the engine trying to grind out what little power it has at low rpm. And as I said, when you take your foot off the pedal momentarily and then get back on, the pulsing goes. It's not like the engine has sped up into the power band while my foot was off the gas. I don't remember this phenomenon in my last car.

Whether it's bogging/lugging or something else, my "foot briefly off the gas pedal" technique has been working to mitigate/cheat it. That's the part I wanted to share, since it seemed counterintuitive.

 

Yes I meant lugging, and I still think that's what's happening, and the stuttering or pulsing you feel is probably the ECU trying to compensate for the lugging situation (switch being flipped on). I'm not sure why letting off throttle and then gradually easing into resolves it, except for maybe it's the gradual increase in fuel that makes the ECU happy.

All I know is that I was surprised how much this engine wants you to stay in first gear. I'm used to shifting out of first almost immediately, since other cars I drive you can practically start in second gear. The Tacoma really seems to want you to run out first, and if you shift at greater than 2000 rpm, it's happy.

Also, good on you for getting the MT! Not a lot of us MT drivers left... We gotta stick together!

 

what you guys are describing is something I experienced myself with my 6MT and what I worked hard to address on the original Coyoza tune and carried that through with the YotaWerx tune. Not having to that odd double-step/press on the throttle when shifting (particularly downshifting) makes a huge difference for the overall drivability

 

Could you elaborate on that? What was causing it? I guess it's a trade secret how you fixed it, but if you're willing to share I'm really curious.

 

That makes sense to me that it could be lugging and the ECU is trying to compensate. And it's almost like taking your foot off the pedal is a 'reset' and the ECU is like "oh okay, now I should give it some gas."

The gap between 1st and 2nd is crazy. I thought I was winding out 1st in my last car, but it still took me a few days to figure out I have to really wind out 1st in the Taco.

I'm glad I chose the MT. Driving was so boring and something I 'had to do' when I had autos. Now it's a joy and something I 'get to do.'

 

I mean, I like my Gray TRD shift ball, but this would be more fitting to my truck!

oh well... you can't take it with you, might as well enjoy it!

 

I'm guessing it has something to do with editing the throttle response curve referenced by @tonered to smooth out the 'cliff' or move it up/down to where it doesn't come into play.

 

I found that addressing airload and per gear throttle efficiencies together were the primary culprits, but there's some other variables thrown in there too

 

Man reading threads like this makes me happy that there's still so many MT drivers out there. Really glad I didn't give up on the search and got mine. I wanted (and got) a manual at 15 too, when most kids my age barely want to drive automatics!

 

I like both, just liked the black better so made an effort to go after it as I thought the dark look fit my darkish interior better. Both look good though and functionally they are the same!

 

I’m super curious how the Hilux transmission would feel in our trucks. Hoping @Jowett gets it done enough to find out. Not cost effective and maybe forces a regear but all in all just super curious how R, 1 and 2 change up.

 

Combined with a regear, reverse would be freakin fantastic. I think 1st would be annoyingly low. 2nd would be great, and hopefully good enough that combined with a regear, could replace 1st in most scenarios. 1st would be so low that combined with a regear it would be really obnoxious to use all the time. I so wish I had the money/resources/time to do that swap but it likely isn't ever going to be in the cards for me if I had to guess. I am also really anticipating Jowett's review of the results especially post-regear.

 

How would a Hilux transmission differ from a Tacoma transmission; don't they both use Aisin transmissions.

 

The ratios are different. Hilux has better R-3, Taller 5-6. Very short 1st. There are some tradeoffs to either but combined with a regear, other than the low 1st gear, I think the Hilux would be the winner. Downside is you have to order it from overseas for several thousand and then get the input shaft changed out so it works with the 2GR.

RC60F (Hilux):

1 - 4.784
2 - 2.423
3 - 1.443
4 - 1.000
5 - 0.777
6 - 0.646

R - 4.066

RC62F (Tacoma)

1 - 3.982
2 - 2.017
3 - 1.321
4 - 1.000
5 - 0.848
6 - 0.713

R - 3.385

 

It will be completed... still working on synchronizers and now looking at building the 3.5 for a bit more resilience under boost.

 

Two things I like a lot about my bro in law’s Freightliner transmission.

1. First/Second gear is bottom left, reverse low/high top left. That pattern makes sense to me. No confusion about where R is and still easy shifting between R and 1/2. I think easier than our 6MT pattern.
   
2. Granted it’s a diesel but you basically ignore 1/2 when unloaded as 3 is more than enough torque to get off the line even with an empty trailer.

I think most of us would rather trade a mostly useless 5th for a rarely useful 1st? I know I would. Would be even better if 1 were hidden in the bottom left corner.

 

I've grown to like the stock 5th. I cruise in it more than 6th just due to all the fast moving traffic I end up in. Although the hilux trans 5th with 5.29s would work out to about the same as my stock 5th is now, so I wouldn't give up 5th either. I would sacrifice 1st to being super low but I can get by on that. the super low 1st would have one enormous benefit: creeping in traffic more slowly.

To put the hilux 1st gear into perspective....put the stock truck into 2 or 4LOW and put it in 2nd gear. First gear in the hilux trans and with 5.29 axle gears will be lower/more revvy.

1st and 5.29s:
4.784 x 5.29 = 25.30 ratio

Stock 2nd gear and 2/4low:
2.017 x 2.57 x 4.30 = 22.29

Stock 1st gear and 2/4low:
3.982 x 4.30 = 17.12

Hilux 2nd with 5.29s:
2.423 x 5.29 = 12.82

So, dealing with Hilux 1st and 5.29s would be really low on the street....useless in most scenarios but good for traffic. But I think 2nd would be low enough for starting in that it would be no issue.