Manual Transmission Sales

Hehe, I tell myself that maybe it’s just poor outreach on my part and needing to use social media. Plus high barrier of entry for my instruction. When I wasn’t an independent instructor, classes were very expensive.

Now independent with the problems I ironically had with my truck, being destroyed by some stupid Gen Z shop employee not knowing how to disengage the parking brake and shoddy clutch replacement work turning his minor gaffe into a disaster, I haven’t been doing any manual lessons out of fear I’ll get bitten again.

Question: If you learned to drive before 2000, did you have any traditional driver’s ed manual transmission instruction in the field? I feel like the break in Americans knowing how to drive stick universally, is no formal instruction in the first place. Plus parents who don’t own any also playing a factor and not encouraging their kids to learn.

We can’t just blame it on interest in my opinion. We have to teach our youth in the first place how to drive, so when we don’t, a lot of them get very comfortable and don’t bother. Instead relying on friends, parents, partners, public transportation, or Uber to pickup the slack. Don’t teach em how to ride a bike or tie their shoes, they won’t.

Lately, lots of Gen Z have been learning since the pandemic about motoring and manual cars thanks to some of their automotive influencers encouraging them. Probably with thr Tacoma, is price and Toyota limiting sales for the Tacomas most likely. I wonder if it’s distribution or Toyota not allowing custom orders?

 

I hear you. Although when I took Driver's Ed in high school we only drove automatics and that was way back in 1984 (ouch). Manuals were pretty common in those days.

On a only slightly related note: the cars we drove for Driver's Ed were base-trim AMC Concords. A truly historic car said no one ever.

 

I bought my offroad manual in another province about a 3hr drive from me. The salesman said if it was auto he would have sold it 10 times in the few weeks it was sitting on the lot nobody was interested in the manual.

 

What are the characteristics that you say make it not good?

My understanding is that the MT 4th Gen Tacoma's RC60f tranny is shared with the world-market HiLux and supposed to be a robust transmission with a wider gear spread and lower reverse gear than the RC62f in the MT 3rd Gen. The 3rd Gen RC62f feels a little clunky, the gear spread (and the high reverse) aren't perfect but it's a notable improvement over the RA60f in the MT 2nd Gen in all ways (including the terrible non-replaceable aluminum quill design), clearly showing some kind of innovation/evolution and that Toyota hasn't completely given up on the MT in the Tacoma platform. But...then again...I haven't driven a 4th gen MT truck yet so would like to hear why you think it's not good.

 

It's all been talked about here on the forums a million times. OK, maybe not a million. More like 768,000.

A month or two after we had hashed out all the good and bad about the manual here, Ezra Dyer did a pretty good job summing it all up. You'd think he reads the forums or something.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a62544284/2024-toyota-tacoma-manual-drive/

 

I mean...if you're comparing a MT to a modern auto (which the C/D article seemed to do), a MT is going to lose in every metric except driver engagement over the auto. That's not why any of us drive manual cars, though. Can you tell me why YOU think the 4th gen MT is "not good"?

 

And one thing he didn't cover:

• Redline is artificially reduced by 800 rpm in the manual.
  
• First gear is too short.
• The rev-hang is ridiculous.
• The flywheel weighs a million pounds.

Combine those four and trying to smartly pull away from a stop in traffic becomes frustrating and annoying when it should be the peak of manual enjoyment.

JM(and other's)HO

 

Don't take my word for it. Go drive one in traffic and get back to us.

edit - And I'm not comparing it to an automatic; I'm comparing it to every manual I've owned and driven. Which is thousands, since I was a valet parking attendant in college.

 

That's all good to know. I appreciate it. I (obviously) honestly haven't dug into the 4th gen platform much. Too happy with my MT swapped 2nd gen to even think about a new truck. So... it is the first time I've heard the RC60f isn't good.

Seems like at least one of those problems can be taken care of when tuning comes online for the 4th gen platform. And...most of us with bigger tires that wheel our trucks happen to like a heavier flywheel and low 1st gear so I'll definitely go poke around a dealer lot and drive one someday. Thanks again.

 

This line from Mr. Dyer sums it up perfectly:

"drive it like a diesel with blown synchros and all is simpatico"

If you drive it slowly and deliberately it's fine. If you try to make it go, you are going to be unhappy.

 

Is this Mr. Dyer's 1st Toyota truck? That's how you gotta drive every MT Toyota truck. Hahahahaha!

 

The Toyota pickups in the late 80s, the ones before the Tacoma, had great manual transmissions. Especially when paired with the V6.

I test drove 1st- and 2nd-gen manuals but don't recall if they were good or bad. I do remember not liking the trucks for other reasons though.

When it comes to 3rd- and 4th-gen, just because all of the manuals in them are bad doesn't mean they're not bad.

 

I think you'll find when you can tune out the rev hang in your truck, it'll be a game changer. And I'd venture to say that the rest of the "problems" are based on people's opinions that don't have the broader depth of experience that you do. Drive a 22R powered MT pickup again and tell me that it's anything other than slow and deliberate.

 

Spot on - don't rush it and the experience improves greatly.

 

Once OTT is done cooking up a Rev Hang Reducing Tune for the 4th Gen, it will probably be a game changer. I got the OTT tune for my 2nd Gen with rev hang reduction and throttle sensitivity increased and it transformed the manual trans experience. Now it's very fun to drive!

 

So there's a possibility you're misunderstanding the situation.

The 22R is slow and deliberate. That's a different thing.

In the 4th gen, under your right foot is a wonderful (if somewhat coarse-sounding) wave of turbo torque that is ready and eager to be unleashed. The problem with the manual is that, when you do unleash it, you're punished more than you're rewarded. You run out of revs way too soon, and when you do shift quickly the truck turns into a bucking and bouncing mess that feels like you just took two years off of the drivetrain's life. No es bueno.

I hope you guys are right about tunes fixing it, because it has the potential to be a fun truck. Even if the redline is still too low and first gear is still too short.

 

So there's a possibility you're doing it wrong.

 

Yeah, but I'm not.

Nor am I the only one to call out the 4th gen MT for driving like that, both here and in print.

Shift slowly and deliberately and all is fine, we know.

 

Mines the same way I shift super slow in it.. And my little Kei truck I shift even slower its like driving a micro tractor trailer

 

I don't get it.

I must've gotten the only 4G that they built right.

I had to try to notice the "rev hang" on purpose after I read about it here. Maybe its just the way I drive but I have to try to make it rev hang.

Could the throw be shorter? Absolutely!

But thats what short throw shifters are for if the aftermarket would ever wake up.

Could 1st gear be taller on the street? Absolutely.

But its an offroad vehicle and being geared low is what its designed for.

I could live without the low redline, but thats why it has 6 gears.

It's a truck. The manual in it isnt going to be as good as a Porsche Cayman or what ever you want to compare it to.

I have a manual gas 2005 F250 at my shop and if you want to test out a shitty manual, go drive one of those!

I'm just not sure what people are expecting when they complain here.

Like when they whine about the turbo being too loud. Seriously!?

I would've expected people to complain that it's too quiet.

I guess everyone's experience and opinions are just different than mine.

I think automatics are scam to make you buy a new car every other year out of fear it will break and cost $7k.

But thats just my opinion- never had to fix a manual ever in my life though