Maybe they could do a better job of enforcing the law if they actually knew it...

Nice posts rme!!

 

Food for thought...

As of today, May 18, 2011, (the 138th day of the year), 70 cops have died in the United States (source= Officer Down Memorial Page www.odmp.org). On average, a cop dies every 1.97 days. Of those 70 deaths, 31 of them are due to gun fire (up 41%).

Even for a cop, guns are still scary, and the problem with being shot dead is that once your dead, you stay dead, there's no do overs for the "would of, should of, could of". Personally, if it comes down between him or me, I'm going to vote for me, which means, if faced with an armed man, I'm going to point a gun at him, not just for shit's and giggles, but because he has a gun that can kill me.

I became a cop for a lot of reasons, but I would be negligent to myself and family if I didn't keep in the back of my mind that there are people out there who just don't like cops. What those people look like remain to be seen, sometimes they look like gangsters, sometimes they look like professionally dressed, law abiding citizens. Cops just don't know who's who in the zoo at the initial contact, and it's not fair to expect them to, because it's almost impossible. One can generalize who they are making contact with, but you still have no idea about their training and or background.

Now, I've read a lot of expert testimony about this, that, and everything regarding how the Sgt reacted, but until you are faced with a life or death situation, please be mindful of the position the cop was in (again, not condoning him not knowing his laws), he was confronted with what he reasonably thought was a static situation. We're not talking about someone ordering a hamburger who ended up getting a cheeseburger, this involved a gun.

You may not like the out come, but give him a little slack, God forbid he didn't do anything and that same guy ended up going postal (for lack of a better term) on innocent people...could you imagine the grief we would be giving him for that?

 

@jcka

oh absolutly a police officer has got to be one of the most dangerous jobs out there, and i dont blame you at all for pointing your weapon at an armed person. (im asking this in a respectful, conversation tone, not trying to be sarcastic or start a fight in anyway. I respect cops for the danger they put themselves into each day)
but would you pull your gun on a man and point it at his back because he has a weapon in a holster, and he is making no motion torward it at all?

 

You Sir are an excellent writer and are very effective in your communication skills!!! I support your thesis 100% as I would think most of us on here will and do. It's great hearing from someone from Ca. as it has alot of interesting cases that come from it. (Just out of curiosity are you aware of the 4th amendment case about searching all that within leaping distance --case law? (Chimel vs. California))

By the way I think you subscribe to the old police rule of "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6." My positions are simply based in law and yours are not only based in law but based in common sense. I would hope most LEO's would be at the ready when approaching a suspect. Every cop should be able to go home and eat dinner with his family as well as every innocent person.I just want every LEO to be a lawyer first and make every decision as if they must defend it in a court of law...I don't believe the Pa LEO's did that. Nothing wrong with them drawing their guns but pointing them is another issue...Another good reference for LEO's killed in the line of duty is the uniform crime report (UCR) published by the FBI. It will tell you how many were killed with their own handgun and what days and what hours most of them were killed. It will even show if they died in traffic accidents!!

 

No worries! First and foremost though, I'm not defending the guys lack of professionalism, I'm just saying I get it when it comes to how it went down.

To answer your question though, and from the comfort of my computer at the moment, I would have done it differently.

First I would have started with radio'ing for additional units, the more units, the merrier. Depending on where I'm at in regard to other people, I would figure out an approach, hopefully staying as far away from as many people as I can. Hopefully I can find something to hide behind and contact him from there, but if I can't, on my approach I would have certainly unholstered and had my gun by my side (because this guy could be the spawn of Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakley for all I know).

I would contact him, explain my intentions (without all the colorful language and death threats), and from there one of two things will happen, he'll either comply or won't. If he becomes non compliant and or argumentative (like in this case), that would give me reasonable suspicion to believe something may not be right, and from there the threat assesment would go up and that's when the pointing starts.

Once the dust settles and I know what's going on, he would either go to jail, or, if he's in the right, he goes on his way. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...God knows I've been wrong before, and there's nothing wrong with an apology.

I guess what it comes down to is that you have to expect the worst and hope for the best, just because he hasn't motioned for his gun doesn't mean he won't or can't.

 

Thank you for the compliment. After twenty one years, I just want to make sure I go home at the end of the day, as do all LEO's. I completely understand that the puplic has tarnished feelings about the police, and it's no thanks to all the knuckle heads out there who gave us that reputation. It just gets under my skin to see so many people jump off on topic's when they have no idea what they're talking about. Sure, there's bad cops out there, as are bad people in every profession. I take pride in what I do and have worked real hard at it, and to be classified with someone who F's it up for everyone goes against my grain.

A lot of good cases come out of California, and thanks to the 9th Circut, things are changing all the time.

 

LMAO---ah yes the good ol 9th circuit hasn't changed in the 40 years I've watched them. By the way who appointed Chief Justice Warren to the high court and what state did he come from. Surprisingly the Conservatives have appointed most of the very liberal judges we find in the Supreme Ct.

Back on topic.....I hope they all drive Toyota tacoma's....LOL

 

WRONG

 

Haha this is awesome, the only people left in this thread are the ones having an inteligent and detailed conversation. Its very civilized and there isn't any of the usual internet insults being thrown around. To your quoted post...that is fantastic, I truly have no response, because I agree with you completly and that was just so spot on. I guess I can just say I wish the officer in the incident was half as professional as that