Michelin Defender...off-road capable?

What kind of pictures do you want to see?
When I had my sidewall puncture I had to use the super swamper I'd been given for a spare. Did lots of wheeling in Moab with 3 michelins and the swamper. It's one of the most aggresive looking tires I've ever seen short of a paddle tire for mudding. Made a tremendous racket on the road and threatened to rattle your fillings loose. Guess which tire consistently broke loose on any type of terrain?
I'm trying to help OP. People telling him that he can't offroad a great tire because it doesn't look cool doesn't seem terribly helpful.
I've wheeled a lot of different places with a lot of different people who ran a lot of different tires. I never found the terrain that I couldn't traverse but someone with a similarly set up truck could with different tires.
Anywhere this truck can go, the michelins can take you. 100,000 mile tread life and great traction on wet or snowy roads with an incredibly smooth and quiet ride to boot makes it better than any other tire I've ever come across.
I'm currently running cooper st maxx, a very popular aggressive looking tire. I'm running them because they quit making the michelins in my size. They're not a bad tire by any means. Seem to do just fine off road. Not very good traction on icy or snowy roads. Ride rougher than the michelins. Tread life is maybe 1/3 of the michelins.
I have a set of 17" rims so that I can go back.

 

I don’t think anyone told the OP he can’t offroad in them. I think everyone’s intent is to set level expectations.

Most people at some point have taken their ATs and P tires off-roading and I have seen almost bald tires get through a trail but that doesn’t mean I’m going to recommend people to run a bald tire.

We all want to help the OP.

 

I quoted the OP so you could re-read it.
Have you owned or wheeled the michelins?
You accused me of making an ignorant statement. Making a statement about something you have no experience with is the definition of ignorant.

 

Both of these statements above are what I stated was ignorance. They speak for themselves.

I’ve ran Michelin Defenders and ran Michelin LTX ATs almost exclusively on my F250. Great tire but not great offroad. Which is why I don’t use them offroad and instead use those tires for pavement.

The Defender should be fine for the OP but if you want to continue this pissing contest we can do it through PMs or meet at a trail to compare.

 

"Best" is subjective so I could've added "in my opinion" to be more accurate. Since the opinion comes from experience though, "ignorant" is an inaccurate label.
I'm willing to listen to or see demonstrated how bits of rubber on a sidewall improve performance. Not too interested in "pissing contests" though. I'll just concede that one.

 

JoeCOVA

Have you checked out this dudes offroad pics at all? Everything from trail riding to hardcore rock crawling. If the dude says the tires work, well I would tend to believe the photographic evidence.

 

So much wrong information in here I don't know where to start.

Yes, OP, they are off road capable. Dont expect them to paddle mud or self clean extremely well, though. Honestly, most "MT" labeled tires ability to self clean is mediocre.

 

Bits of rubber on the sidewall has been proven in tire testing. Obviously, every lug on a tire is another finger clawing at the ground, rock or mud and in many circumstance the sidewall is doing work. As far an my own experience it's primarily offroad and aired down, the tire flexes outward increasing the tire contact patch and doesnt have the tread of drag radial. Two pictures below show the sidewall either flexed out or flexed under the wheel and thats just extra lugs for traction.

Just what is here and on his profile which is pretty mild to be honest. I ran my stock tires down T-33 plane crash which is moderate (5-5) and they were "fine" but still not something I would recommend. Most would consider this hardcore offroading or rock crawling and this is actually a basic trail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CqG9QFGbiQ

 

I checked out his build thread or something like that 3 months or so ago and it was full of all sorts of pics. Mild to wild.

 

Nice, I checked it out. I've ran all those trails and it's honestly mild - moderate. No trips to the difficult trails, like Eagle Rock and Seran Wrap, Blanca Peak, Holy Cross.

We can tell the tires held up but we can also tell that he probably got stuck quite a few times...

Eitherway, OP should be all set and good to see people out using their trucks

 

They were by far the best riding off road 'ish tires I have had on a vehicle.

 

10 ply tires as you call them refer to the contact surface plies as in load bearing ability. 2 ply or 3 ply refers to sidewall thickness. Obviously, 3ply sidewalks offer more protection from sidewall puncture or slices.

 

@Madtiger
I guess I'll take the time to write out an explanation. The full explanation will be long though... maybe too long to read.
I didn't buy Michelins because I wanted to go wheeling. I went wheeling with Michelins because they were what I had. They were what I had because of the incredible experience I've had with them. I owned a Ranger before this Tacoma. I never modded or wheeled the Ranger other than fire roads. I had 80k miles on it when I had to buy my first set of tires (factory Firestones were recalled and replaced with some other garbage) I decided that I would spend some money on a decent set of tires and got the Michelin LTX M/S. It was like a brand new vehicle. The ride was amazingly better than before. They had way better traction on winter snow packed roads too. I figured that to perform as well as they did, they must be soft and wear quickly or something. I sold the Ranger at 198k miles with those same tires on it. They were so old that the sidewalls were checkering from dry rot but they still had adequate tread and still performed well in rain and snow.
Enter the Tacoma.... I wanted to mod and wheel the Taco. I read up and researched on TW and realized I needed to get different wheels or spacers to run 33s. I found a set of wheels with the right specs on craigslist and they were coincidentally wrapped in Michelin LTX M/S tires. Same deal... it felt like a brand new truck because it rode so much better. I honestly feel like the manufacturers are short changing themselves when they put crappy tires on their new vehicles. A test ride would be much more impressive on good tires than the ones they ship them out with.
Not being made of money, I started wheeling with a cheap bilstein lift and these old michelins. I was surprised at what the Tacoma would do. It seemed much more capable than the full size Fords and Chevy's I remembered from high school. (Still miss my '69 Bronco though). I met a lot of good people here on TW and was led around on a lot of cool trails. Everyone laughed at the michelins and it kind of became a running joke. I got crap for my tires, but I followed right along on the same trails that everyone else was running. I enjoyed the wheeling so much that if I had ever found the tires lacking, I definitely would have bought something else. But I didn't. To this day, I have not gone anywhere where a similarly equipped truck with different tires had any less difficulty on anything that I did and the people I've gone wheeling with will acknowledge this. It's still a running joke and we've had a lot of fun with it over the years. I didn't give myself my title or make the picture in my signature. Those were done by people that have gone wheeling with me. I did post this for fun...

and things like this....

Everyone is going to have an opinion. Especially about tires. They're almost as bad as oil. We have a lot of fun with opinions but don't let someone mix those up with facts. Don't let someone tell you you can't air them down. I've aired down to 8psi for sand dunes and regularly down to 12-15 for most trails. Don't let someone tell you they have weak sidewalls. While I have punctured one, I've also subjected them to a lot and I don't think I've seen a make or model of tire that I haven't seen someone puncture. And definitely don't let someone tell you they aren't any good offroad. It just isn't true. There were some concerned jeepers in Moab once who asked my friends if the "the guy with the highway tires was going to be alright" and then were amazed when I walked up the "tipover challenge" that they couldn't do. (It's really more about wheel base)

There are definitely people with more radically built trucks. 35s would be a jump up from the 33s I'm running and would open up tougher trails. SAS or Long travel would do the same. I'm not there yet and likely won't be at least as long as the Taco is my daily. I'm ok with that, I get to go everywhere I want to and experience what I want to the way she sits now and I honestly believe that I've pushed the limits of what an IFS Tacoma can do on 33s. Never did I feel that the tires were holding me back in any way.
The used tires were doing the whole dry rot/checkered sidewall thing too. I think they were about 10 years old or so if I remember from the date stamp. When I finally decided to get new tires, I was so sold on the Michelins that I didn't want anything else. I did decide to try the A/T 2s. They're marketed as ATs I guess, but really the only noticeable difference is that they scallop out some of the outside of the tread. I can't honestly say it's made any difference in offroad performance. Fortunately, they were every bit as good as the M/S were in terms of ride and wet/icy road performance. They may not have gotten quite as good mileage, but I can't be sure because 1) different truck and 2) when they were about 3/4 worn, I got the sidewall puncture outside of Moab somewhere. It was a sad day when I found out that the 285/75/16s were discontinued in the A/T 2s and I'd have to get new tires. I finally settled on the Cooper ST Maxx tires and I've been disappointed ever since. I've done some wheeling with them and they seem to perform the same but there are some pretty big sacrifices on road. Ride quality is rougher and noisier, wet/icy performance is not even close and (fortunately?) the wear is a mere fraction of what the Michelins were giving. I say fortunately because I've gotten a hold of some 17" wheels and I'm really looking forward to going back to the Michelins. These Coopers will not make it to this next winter.

 

@teamhypoxia

So you got the sidewall puncture with the AT2? Or was that with LTX M/S?

From what i gathered, the Defender is actually tougher than the older M/S and M/S2.......and probably tougher than AT2.

 

It was the A/T2.
Honestly, I don't know what's different with the defender.
One thing about the puncture that impressed me (whether it should have or not) was that it was about an inch long and couldn't be torn longer. I remember a friend having a sidewall puncture (think it was duratracs) that you could fit your hand in and even tear it further.
I would always recommend having a spare because I've seen lots of punctures happen and I believe they can happen to any tire that holds air.

On the Michelin note.... I put a set of michelins on the wife's minivan that turned out to be absolute garbage in terms of wet/icy traction. We took those back to discount tire and had them put something else on. So I don't have a blind brand loyalty either

 

Here is a good review and overview of Defender and what Michelin did to improve on previous gen: https://tractionlife.com/michelin-defender-ltx-ms-review/

“The Defender LTX represents an evolution of the company’s previous design, but this latest variant has been reengineered to be stronger and more durable in response to the fact that the latest light truck offerings are producing increased amounts of torque.

The solution to this problem was to incorporate the company’s new EverTread compound, as well as to strengthen the construction of the tire’s sidewalls. Apparently this potent combination, as well as a number of other improvements give this new-generation Defender the capabilities Michelin engineers were seeking, without compromising overall ride quality.

Michelin has conducted an extensive testing program for the Defender and results have revealed that the tread lasts 10-percent longer than its predecessor and due to improved traction it is able to bring a vehicle to a stop more quickly, and requires 10 metres less to do so (from 80 km/h).

Michelin subjected these tires to endurance trials over 3,000 kilometres of treacherous gravel roads in Spain to demonstrate the quality of the new tire’s construction. It was revealed that the Defender LTX was able to resist the cutting and chunking of its tread blocks, even when faced with long periods of operation over sharp rocks and irregular surfaces.“

 

I've had P265/60/18 LTX M/S2's on my 4Runners. No sidewall punctures going offroad in NV, CO, UT, AZ. Traveled through plenty of sharp-edged rocks.

LT will be stronger, what I've been told is the way modern tires are rated, an LT tire may be only 3-ply, but they're THICKER plys. This link explains how the old "10-ply" rating no longer is applicable https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/tire-ply-rating#

So bottom line is the LTX M/S is a good allaround tire. Looking at user ratings you'll see the MS is 7/10 offroad, 9/10 or 10/10 for other uses. For comparison, the Michelin LTX A/T is rated 10/10 offroad, 8/10 other uses. https://www.michelinman.com/category/light-truck

 

I have never got less than 100K miles out of the last 5 sets of michelins. Very little weight to balance. Quiet, less rolling resistance, steering is better. Your tire problems are over if you buy michelins. Better in rain, snow, and most other conditions.

 

Resurrecting an old thread. Sorry. Anyone have anything else to say about Defenders toughness off-road?

 

Had 2 sets of these. Great tires, good for 70,000+ miles.
Good for all road conditions, but IMO not off road