MPG really isn't that different chinscoop/no-chinscoop so... what is your deciding factor?

Towing is absolutely about horsepower and torque. You deeply misunderstand the two if you don’t think power is important.

im not going to build a biodiesel plant in my back yard, and likely neither are you or 99.997% of other owners.

 

I tend to agree, but I’m not the one aching for high MPGs at the cost of a hundred horsepower

 

Sounds like they’re fools for not considering cost per mile, but you’re doing the same thing by not looking at diesel’s true cost

 

Nah, peak torque at low rpm. And really it is mostly about gearing. Medium duty trucks can tow and haul more than the 3/4-1 tons…and all with a detuned engine. Go look at the specs.

Be cooler if ya did!

 

Most people are.

Diesel vs gas costs is always a wash. Benefits of diesel is better range, safer to handle, stores longer, usually greater service life.

 

Again, you’re severely misunderstanding force and power conceptually.

Pulling hills at speed, for instance, is determined by power production, not by off idle torque. Medium duty truck ratings are a largely a result of chassis, suspension, and braking capability, not engine limitations

 

Diesel also doesn't get cut with ethanol like gasoline, and you can buy off road diesel if you don't intend to use it on roads. Diesel engines are more robust, don't require spark plugs or a complicated ignition system, and so can be run under water (if that's your thing).

But all those reliability benefits evaporate once you take it into the US where DEF and fine practical filters are required that screw up the simplicity and throw the vehicle into limp mode every time a sensor on one fails. I wish Toyota had diesels pre-2008 more than I wish they had them now. Australia has no fuel economy standards, so their vehicles don't need those costly systems.

 

Yeppers

 

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Nope it is about torque, can do a lot under 2000 rpm, why the hp is generally a lot lower on diesels.

You never towed with a medium duty truck before I am guessing. Can do a lot of heavy moving with less power. Lived in those trucks for years, that and diesel earth moving equipment. It is all about the gearing.

Guessing you don’t have any hands on personal experience operating diesels, judging by your answers. You don’t run them real high in the rpm range.

 

Oh boy. It’s not about RPM, but about power. This is really just you misunderstanding what power and torque actually are

 

You really aren’t getting it. Diesels are very happy at a constant rpm, don’t have the rev the snot out of them like a gasser. Peak torque is low in the rpm range.

On earth moving equipment, you set the throttle and forget about it.

I can tell you have no personal experience operating one. Same with wind noise in a G-Wagon, had to go look on a forum.

 

Towing on a highway and operating an earth mover are very different. You’re not even talking about the same concepts here.


And yes, I have towed and hauled with many medium duty trucks, larger diesel full-size pickups, and even my current 185hp diesel ambulance conversion. Believe me, towing my race trailer with 185hp is very different from towing with more horsepower.

towing uphill at speed, for instance, with all the torque on earth doesn’t help if you have very little horsepower.

 

It’s not different. Always try to keep the rpm in that sweet spot for maximum efficiency, why we have gears. Have traveled across the country many times.

Shouldn’t be trying to pull hills at speed either, that is just hard on equipment and wastes fuel, why we have hazards lights, hit the button and enjoy the view. Especially the looks from impatient drivers as they pass you, really makes my day that I ruined theirs.

And since we are talking about 4th Gen Tacomas, the all out power hybrid version looses 500 lbs in towing capacity. So it isn’t all about maximum power.

Your turn…

 

Slowing down on a hill is exactly why horsepower is important for towing at speed. With more horsepower, you can more easily maintain speed on hills (because force over a distance is literally what power is). So while you may ache for 45mph uphill with the hazards on, that doesn’t mean that horsepower is irrelevant to towing. many people, including you in other discussions here, have noted that more torque at lower RPM will make the 2.4t tow better than the 3.5. That’s because it’s creating more power at any given point.


You cannot separate torque from horsepower in any discussion of driving dynamics. They are inseparable, and power is IMMENSELY important in towing. That’s why modern big rigs have 600hp and tow over the road far better than old rigs. If you deliver 2000lb ft at 1200rpm or 2000lb ft @1800rpm while going up hill, I know which will pull better.

but please, let’s talk more about hydraulic drive earth movers

 

So you’re trying to the class that horsepower is better for towing, yeah?

Then why in the world do most 3rd Gen Tacoma owners complain nonstop that the minivan engine needs more bottom end? Notice the new turbo engines hp didn’t change all that much, even lower on the manual trans equipped trucks. By your logic they should bumped the horsepower higher.

Rather have 2000 ft/lbs at 1200 rpm than 1800, burn less fuel for the long term.

 

Horsepower is not “better for towing” than torque. They’re not separable concepts. It’s a matter of torque applied at a rate produces horsepower. You cannot say “I’d rather have torque than horsepower,” because it’s a nonsensical statement.

3g owners complain because the torque delivery is such that peak torque and horsepower are very high in the rev range. Peak power is also going to be up fairly high with the 2.4t, but the high torque at low rpm means it produces more power at those low RPM, making towing at speed a better experience.

the hypothetical 2000lb ft at 1200 rpm would indeed likely have lower fuel consumption, because it would be producing far less power and would move the same load far more slowly. You’re still completely misunderstanding the relationship.

 

Dude you just got telling us horsepower is better towing to ad nauseam, and all I said from the get go is I rather more torque than horsepower for towing. And here we are simply because hate loosing an argument. But please go on…

 

No, I said horsepower production is IMPORTANT, not that one is better than another. The latter would be nonsensical.


The fact that you’d “rather more torque than horsepower” doesn’t really make any sense, since you do not choose one or another.

In the 2.4t’s case, it makes close to the same torque at ~1700rpm as the diesel in the hilux, but also produces far more horsepower overall. The more powerful engine will tow far better, especially uphill and at speed.

 

For towing I would rather have a mid 1990’s Ram with a 12 valve Cummins diesel with a measly 160 HP than a modern turbo gas engine with 300 HP. Why is that?

 

I'd probably leave it on at first at least if I buy a 4th gen.

That Limited did look so much better without it in the TFL video though.