MT clutch question

There is definitely a difference in response depending on the situation, although TBH I noted these differences WRT applying throttle and not so much letting off. The following is how my truck responds running OVtune 1.04A 91 Octane. I have about 2200km on this file:

1. Stopped, clutch in, tranny in any gear or neutral - when you blip the throttle, the response is right there and RPM rises quickly. Not quite as good as a cable, but definitely much better than stock. It's consistent, which is the most important thing;

2. Stopped, clutch out in neutral - the response is considerably slower and rpms rise slower. At first I thought it might be due to load added by the transmission internals and gear oil, but it's such a difference that I don't think that is plausible. You have to remember that the clutch pedal has two switches, one that indicates when it is all the way in (disengaged), and one that indicates when it is all the way out (engaged). So, the ECM absolutely "knows" when either of those conditions are true, or if you are in between. I just don't know what the software does with this info (that's a Mat Wilson question);

3. In motion, clutch in and blip for a downshift - It depends... sometimes you are slowing down and want to pull off a 3-2 rev matched downshift and you get a good crisp response. Other times, nope... you'll get a delay and the rpm will rise more slowly. I'm sure one of the variables is actually how fast you're going and thus what RPM you're at when you try the downshift. Note that this will happen with other gear changes too, like 4-3. Again, it's the inconsistency in the throttle that's the central issue to me as a M/T pilot. I'd obviously like it to be quick all the time too lol. Mat has done wonders already, but until he gets a M/T dev truck (he's mentioned this recently) or an extended loaner the throttle won't be perfect.

Now, to those that are reading this and don't care or are happy with the way your truck drives - OK, that's great and I believe you. There's no need to tear into someone who doesn't like what their truck does and is seeking a solution.

 

Agreed that the Taco is not a race car but it’s embarrassing to have a Prius blow my big tough truck off the line at a stop light because I’m waiting for RPMs to come to a comfortable enough level to shift.

 

Yes, but like you said it's an opinion. I've always blipped for downshifts on every manual I've owned. It's just the way I drive.

 

Oh no, I rev match downshifts every time I downshift as well. That's just knowing how to drive a manual correctly. Even on my race bikes with slipper clutches, I've still rev matched, cause smooth is fast. Rev hang shouldn't matter to anyone on rev matching a downshift though, my understanding of this was people being annoyed by rev hang when upshifting, which is annoying, but it's a fact of life.

Unfortunatley for all of our inner 'quarter mile at a time' guys, this is not a truck that's gonna win drag races lol

 

In my experience, you don't have to wait. Just adapt your driving style. For me, the rev hang tends to happen at higher rpm shifts while accelerating hard. It does not need to be at WOT, usually anything more than half throttle? When up shifting in that range, I don't try to rev match. Just lift off the gas, the revs are hanging, and the shift matches well enough. No delaying the shift for the hang.

For me, touching the accelerator causes a jerky shift. Not touching it seems to work with the rev hang.

As soon as the clutch starts to engage, get back on the throttle.


Learning this part of the Taco secret sauce took the longest to adapt to. I wish it wasn't there, but . . .

 

LOL
right now more interested.in full OTTO for two reasons .1 MAT has offered to do work in this area 2 I have a concern with clutch wear becuase the lak of power in lower end.
If you do a granny take off your fine,but anything more than that and your wearing the shit out of the clutch when trying to do smooth shifts.
I recently read an article of a auto reviewer who stated that you are going to see a lot of clutch jobs with these trucks becuase of this engine design.

 

Yeah my statement was more geared towards "this isn't a race car" sentiment. When some people say that, they are making a general statement on the whole shifting experience, up or down. Some don't rev match and that's fine, but I prefer not slipping the clutch when I downshift.

Those of us that have already paid the price of tune "admission" can ask for elimination of this annoyance though.. and why not lol.

I agree though, that Rev Hang as a stand alone "issue" is probably not a good enough reason for shelling out ~800 bones to most people.

 

1.05 "power tune" sounds like the answer for you buddy lol. I doubt Atkinson will be "disabled" completely though..

 

Like I say it may have changed in 3rd gen, but I guess the way to describe my '08 is that it drives pretty much like every other Toyota truck I've owned which is why I probably don't notice it.

 

Yes. The 2nd Gens that I test drove felt really good. I felt the better pull down low and the fall off up top on the 2nd Gen. My particular Taco drives very well and doesn't seem to have some of the issues mentioned other than rev hang. It is a rare bit of luck for me. It is not greatly different than the 2nd Gen, IMHO. This rev hang thing is a bit weird. It is only problem when launching for fun.

 

Yeah this is probably why a lot of people report the "clunk" when upshifting into 5th and 6th. If you try and throttle into it (like any other vehicle), well the rpm hasn't dropped as much as you thought - clunk.

If I'm not being careful or slide back into my old school mentality, it happens.

 

Yes. Our setup seems to require no lazy / phoning-it-in shifting. I'm good with that but am curious what it will be like jumping in another MT at this point.

 

I assume the engine management is more sophisticated and is adapting. The hang is an emissions thing to reduce the spurt of unburnt fuel that happens when you unload the engine so perhaps the O2 and throttle position don't result in as much of a rich condition with your style so it doesn't have to be as aggressive. Just purely speculation, maybe you intuitively pull off the throttle slow.

 

You are certainly lucky sir... and that's another thing people reading these "complaints" need to understand - there is a lot of variability in the way these trucks drive. We learned that the hard way in the OVtune community, as some trucks are honeybadgers and don't GAF what you slap them with. They just work well. Others are a complete bastard and require more attention to get right. That can even happen with identical model year and ECU calibration version/ tune file/fuel. Sometimes I wonder if Mat regrets getting into this market lol... then I remember how lucrative it is!

 

That is the reason for the rev hang that I have heard also. Another reason had something to do with controlling crank case vapors?

It happens when you come off the throttle too quickly. Mainly fast driving and trying to shift quickly. We have controlled highway on ramps that just beg for drag race shenanigans like that.

Agreed. For a Toyota product, the variables are interesting and strange.

I see this in the many MPG threads. I don't really pay attention to what AT folks say. Some MT folks report 15mpg, others say mid-20s. I see 19.5. I'm stuck with a nice average truck. No real complaints and definitely no regrets. Trust me, this is an unusual situation for me.

 

My truck is a manual, and I actually LIKE the RPM staying up on it's own during shifting. Why? Think about it... I shift at say 3500 rpm, which is right in this engine's sweet spot. If my truck drops immediately to 600 rpm when I take my foot off the gas and push in the clutch, then once I shift to the next gear I have to bring those RPM's back up to say 2500 rpm in the next higher gear. Right now, if I shift at 3500 RPM the revs drop a bit (not instant like old vehicles)to say 3000 before I shift. That's much better as far as matching.

It seems to me that you guys want a truck that "lugs" at 1200-1500 RPM. I'm fine with the shifts. I have no grind. I have no excessive slip. I just shift at an rpm where the truck is happiest.

I'm just glad I can still get a manual transmission in any truck so I am not going to whine.

 

If you are looking to win races against ANYTHING, you got the wrong vehicle my man.

 

Nah, I beat that school bus by at least half a length.

 

I really don't believe that. From this thread:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/laggy-response.515643/#post-16277435

Searched and was really surprised:

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2012/2012-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-supercrew-first-test/

http://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota-tacoma-2016-motor-trend-truck-of-the-year-finalist/
That's the higher geared AT.

And really, if we're looking at drag strip stuff, the 2017 is only 1sec faster:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2017/2017-ford-f-150-raptor-first-test-velocity-raptor/

I agree that it is a truck, not a sports car, but I have had fun accelerating and cornering with it.

 

My truck reminds me of my old Suzuki RM 250 dirt bike... puttering along at low RPM, then you crack the throttle... wait for it... boom! power band kicks in and the smile gets bigger. At about 3500 RPM is my truck's power band lol. I love on-ramps...