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Musing about Spark Plugs

Discussion in '4 Cylinder' started by Petrol, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Feb 2, 2019 at 9:22 AM
    #1
    Petrol

    Petrol [OP] Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to spark plugs there's a phenomenal amount of hype.

    The spark plug ignites the air/fuel mixture and it's not rocket science. The only real difference in spark plugs is how long they last.
    The electrodes erode over time and the gap becomes larger as a result of that erosion. In addition to that problem, other things can affect the performance of a spark plug. The plug can become fouled with carbon, oil or carbon and oil. (more of a problem with older engines with poor oil control). The ceramic insulator can crack and result in voltage leaking. The electrodes can become glazed (more of a problem back in the days of carburetors and poor mixture control) and occasionally heat can distort the side electrode.

    The solutions to those problems fall into two categories:
    1. Use exotic materials such as platinum to slow the erosion process and lengthen the service life of the spark plug.
    OR
    2. Just change the damn plug more often.

    I get the desire to extend the replacement interval as long as possible when the plugs are difficult to replace. Some engine compartments are just nightmares when it comes to replacing spark plugs. Platinum plugs with long service life look really attractive when it's a PITA to change plugs.

    However the increased cost of those exotic materials and high end plugs may not be a good idea all of the time.

    I just replaced a set of Platinum plugs in a 2.7 liter 4 cylinder that had about 30K miles on them. They should have lasted much longer.
    The old plugs looked good when they came out and I measured the gaps. They were all close to the .043" spec with none over .045". None of the plugs were fouled. However the idle was telling me something wasn't right. I suspect one or more of the plugs had a cracked insulator or some other problem that wasn't obvious to the eye.
    I replaced those Denso Platinum plugs with standard Denso plugs.
    There was an immediate improvement in the idle.

    So if the plugs aren't difficult to replace, my advice is to consider a less expensive plug and simply replace them more often.

    I grew up in an age of regular "tune ups" on engines with points, condensers, rotors, caps, carburetors, and cheap spark plugs. There's a LOT less maintenance these days.

    Exotic plugs are nice but if you have easily accessible plugs - consider just replacing them more often.
     
    iamroddy, knayrb and JNG like this.
  2. Feb 2, 2019 at 8:24 PM
    #2
    trustyrusty436

    trustyrusty436 Well-Known Member

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    I use Pulstar plugs a lot and like them. Their priced about the same as the other exotic plugs, but their not really a normal plug as they have a capacitor in them for a hotter spark. With me and a full tank of gas, the 2018 Taco's rolling out at about 4300lbs. So it needs all the beans it can get, from the 2.7!
     
  3. Feb 2, 2019 at 8:28 PM
    #3
    Suggestausername

    Suggestausername Noob

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    One more advantage to changing plugs more frequently: Less chance the threads will get all gommed up and possibly strip on removal. Get the big bottle of anti-seize with the brush, friends. But, yeah, changing spark plugs can suck.
     
  4. Feb 2, 2019 at 8:32 PM
    #4
    TYetti

    TYetti 4cylinders of awesomeness

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    Or just go with the spec. I grew up with old muscle and those dinky Datsuns as people would say. Sure there were times when I'd go to the parts store with my dad and we'd have a choice, go cheap or go with the spec. Always went with the spec and it meant what? Less issues. It's ok to save a few bucks here and there but I do that with doing my own work, and getting the best deals I can on parts. Theres only 4 plugs it's like 40$
     
  5. Feb 3, 2019 at 6:56 AM
    #5
    Petrol

    Petrol [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I've been a fan of Denso plugs for a long time and before that it was NGK. That choice is based on decades worth of experience and even a standard Denso plug is a pretty good plug.

    The cheapest plug on the market will do EXACTLY the same thing as a good quality plug it just will not do it as long.


    There's a LOT of marketing and hype that goes into advertising spark plugs.
     
    JNG likes this.
  6. Feb 3, 2019 at 6:59 AM
    #6
    Petrol

    Petrol [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I have NO idea how a capacitor could make a "hotter" spark. The coil or coil pack is going to deliver X amount of voltage to the spark plug, that's what you get and the plug can't make more power.
     
    JNG likes this.
  7. Feb 4, 2019 at 3:21 PM
    #7
    Speedytech7

    Speedytech7 Toyota Cult Ombudsman

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    I use whatever is recommended. Nothing more nothing less. NGK V-Power are plenty good for the old 3RZ four banger and my 300zx. I haven't done plugs in my Inline 6 land cruiser yet but I'm fairly sure it also wants the V-Power plugs. You just need the right heat range plug and the recommended material. Mind your gaps and change intervals and no one gets hurt. Also no putting antisieze on NGK plugs, they don't torque right with it and their nickle plating already resists corrosion.
     
    JNG likes this.
  8. Feb 7, 2019 at 4:53 AM
    #8
    Petrol

    Petrol [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Just a little nostalgia. Many years ago an older member of my family had a big Chrysler with a 440 and he asked if I would change the plugs for him. Seemed like a reasonable request from an elder. The car had A/C and between that massive big block and that A/C unit, there wasn't much room left in the engine compartment. The first 7 plugs weren't bad at all. Maybe 20 minutes to get them out and new ones in. That #8 plug on the back of the right bank was another story. I think it would be conservative to say that was a 45 minute job for that one plug !

    You couldn't get to it from the top or the bottom. Once you managed to get the socket on the plug, you had to use a fine tooth ratchet to get maybe 5 degrees of rotation. Once you finally got that that plug out, you had to get the new one started. That was when the cussing really got intense.
    You had to slip a section of rubber fuel line over the end of the plug and use that to guide the plug into the hole and then rotate the rubber line like an universal joint to get the plug started in the treads. After the plug was started you pulled the line off and attempted to get a socket and extension onto the plug. Then while holding the extension in place with one hand you used your other two hands to attach the ratchet to the extension by feel. :).
    Then repeating the 5 degrees of rotation technique with that fine tooth ratchet, you tightened that plug. Oh, I hope you remembered to pull that little rubber sleeve out of the socket before you put it on the plug so that the socket would come out with the extension - right? Otherwise you had to unscrew the plug and start all over again.

    After you finally got the plug tight AND managed to get the socket off the plug, you had to fish the plug wire back onto the plug. Using every bit of flexibility you could muster, you would push the boot back on the plug and really hope it snapped on the plug.

    Back in those days we didn't have platinum plugs but it wouldn't have mattered even if we did. With carburetors, leaded gas, loose valve guides and rings - you would be lucky to get 20K out of a set of plugs and it was common to clean & re-gap them at 10K miles.

    The situation has improved greatly. There are still engines that are nightmares to change plugs on but at least you can go longer between those jobs now.
     
    black coffee likes this.
  9. Feb 7, 2019 at 1:53 PM
    #9
    DGXR

    DGXR Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ now you know why "elder" asked you to change the plugs :D

    It sounds super difficult, maybe it was an engine swap? Those old cars had tons of room under the hood.
     
  10. Feb 7, 2019 at 3:19 PM
    #10
    Petrol

    Petrol [OP] Well-Known Member

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    No engine swap. Bone stock.

    440 big block, A/C, exhaust manifolds and whatever else was on there made it a nightmare.

    SOME of those old cars had tons of room, others had stuff shoe horned in there.
     
  11. Feb 7, 2019 at 3:24 PM
    #11
    US Marine

    US Marine Semper Fi

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    Don't get me started on how much a PITA indexing plugs are !!!!:facepalm:
     
  12. Feb 8, 2019 at 7:13 PM
    #12
    trustyrusty436

    trustyrusty436 Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you check out the Pulstar internet site, a lot of Harley owners us them.
     
  13. Feb 9, 2019 at 5:40 AM
    #13
    Petrol

    Petrol [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Right.......because the "Pulstar internet site" is the gospel and no company would ever hype their own products to boost sales. And to offer further evidence I should listen to people that bought into that hype and marketing such as "Harley Owners".
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  14. Feb 9, 2019 at 6:16 AM
    #14
    Pibbles99

    Pibbles99 One more cast

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    At about 42K my truck was running lousy and while I was at dealership for OC I had them look into it. They said something like $270 for plug change. I asked how much for the plugs? Just under $4 each for Denso. I said I’ll take a set of six. Found a you tube vid that worked for me and I went to it. Those plug ports are a PITA . To beat that I used a straight piece pneumatic air hose( for nail guns and the such) , emphasis on straight. Those hoses have a lot of memory so it may take a little work to get it to work for you, and if not straight you can’t thread plug well.
    I saved about $250 to do it myself in 1.5 hours.
    Got about 10K before I do my third set.
    I don’t see the need to spend extra dough on plugs. I have been using a mid grade fuel versus lowest) since my last change to see where I land in terms of plug longevity but an immediate improvement is seen right away on change
     
  15. Feb 9, 2019 at 7:06 AM
    #15
    Petrol

    Petrol [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you're just trading your labor for theirs but at $24 for the plugs plus $246 for labor, that's a trade I would be willing to make !

    As for the octane rating of the fuel and plug life - there's NOTHING to be gained there. Run the lowest octane fuel that your engine will tolerate.
    If your engine ran on 87 Octane fuel without pinging, go back to that. You're not gaining a thing, including longer plug life, by using more expensive fuel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  16. Feb 9, 2019 at 4:42 PM
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    Pibbles99

    Pibbles99 One more cast

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    Ok noted
    That’s great info thanks
     
  17. Feb 9, 2019 at 7:56 PM
    #17
    trustyrusty436

    trustyrusty436 Well-Known Member

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    I don't care what you do, I don't sell plugs!
     
  18. Feb 20, 2019 at 8:19 PM
    #18
    TRVLR500

    TRVLR500 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know I drove a '73 Cadillac Coupe DeVille as my only car until I got my Taco 5 years ago. A couple of those plugs were hard to get to but once I got it down with the right tools and extensions it "was" much quicker to change those plugs than on my 2.7. Some of those old classics had some really difficult to get to plugs. Think about a '68 Dodge Dart with a Hemi in it.
     
  19. Feb 20, 2019 at 8:30 PM
    #19
    TRVLR500

    TRVLR500 Well-Known Member

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    I put Iridium's in my 2.7 65,000 miles ago. They are still working fine. I did it because I just don't want to be doing maintenance if I don't have to, The same with using Amsoil Signature oil. That being said. I do have a slightly rough idle and will go back to stock Denso's for the next spark plug change just to see if there is a difference. 2.7's all seem to get a slightly rough idle when they get miles on them so it probably isn't the plugs. There is a myriad of issues it could be from MAF sensor to valves to Idle sensor to TPS or a dirty throttle body. My idle isn't bad though. Just very slightly rough.
     
  20. Feb 21, 2019 at 7:37 AM
    #20
    DGXR

    DGXR Well-Known Member

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    I think iridium plugs are spec'd for the 2.7 with a service interval of 100k miles. That's what it had from the factory, and I put in new Denso iridium plugs at 100k miles. Yes MAF and TB maintenance needs to be done at the same interval, or more frequently.
     

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