My Attempt to stop the Frame Rust!

If you already have a solid or rubberized undercoating, I imagine if you spray it down with krown or fluid film when the vehicle is good and dried out, it will creep into any cracks or chips and help protect it from further rust. I don't know to what degree it would but it's got to be better than nothing.

 

We're wolds apart. In the deserts of the southwest our problems related to rust and corrosion are much less severe than in the North East. Here, spray paint works great for keeping the surface rust off. I can't see inside between the laminated steel frame, but from all outward appearances and inspections, mine is still in excellent shape.

To clean paint inside the fame requires the right tools. I did it hella cheap hill billy this way:

 

We aren't too far apart, just by degree. The theory is still the same. In your arid climate, you could do nothing and it would outlast cars around here. But the simple fact remains, you only remove rust by mechanical means or rust disolvers and then paint.....only hides. Rust is oxidation of the iron in the steel. It's a change in the composition of the material itself so there is no such thing as suface rust. All rust goes "into the metal" . Paint covers it up. If you can't see the inside, guaranteed it looks just like the outside before you worked on it. Spray some biodegrable oil in there and breath easy....

 

I think you have a wacky interpretation of what paint really does, and we're going to disagree a little bit and that's okay... Not interested in winning any arguments with you, but I'll respond a little bit.

I'm not talking theory. I'm talking 6.5 years of Tacoma ownership experience. I get under my truck all the time, and when I see surface rust from rock impacts, I clean and paint, and guess what? It stops the rust! Mechanics who work on my truck have complemented me on how clean it is. I've also seen the frame-rot-rust-cancer pics from the North East / Canada / Salt road climates. In my opinion the climate and road conditions play a large value in the equation of frame care. The harsher the climate, the faster the corrosion.

 

Well my good friend. This is the usual rust debate issue between two people who live on opposite ends of the "rust spectrum" .
Your advice on rust control, using paint, will of course work because doing nothing will work also where you live. 6.5 years ? Try 30 years of Toyota truck ownership in mid Maine. Really, ours is just a discussion because nothing you do in your climate will fail you. You could piss on your frame and it wouldn't make much difference..in how long it lasts.

Did you ever stop to think why rust prevention shops don't paint the frames like they do the bodies ? Think about it. It's not done to piss you off. It's not done because it is better not to paint them like they do the bodies. The labor in preparation which is where the real rust prevent is, is too intensive. It is better to treat them yearly in the way I indicated. That is the accepted way here by people in Canada and northern US.So, continue doing what you do...it will be fine. You're keeping it clean and painting it. Just remember though. Never buy a used truck with a freshly painted frame...every time you sand your frame, you take away good metal too.

 

I don't see it as a debate. Under normal circumstances, a properly prepped and painted piece of carbon steel will not rust. That's a fact.

I think it's fair to say that the Toyota frames have a defect, they are not all normal. As far as I know Toyota sued and recovered millions from Dana corp who made the frames. To this day it remains unclear what went wrong in the manufacturing process. Some said the problem was inside the laminated steel, hence the catastrophic rusting from the inside out effect, not to be confused with surface rust.

But I think where you are wrong is when you wrote this:

Paints do seal, really well actually!

Not true! My frame rusts too, hence cleaning surface rust, and repainting.

The answer is obvious. The environmental conditions the automotive frame is exposed to are inherently much more severe than the rest of the vehicle. There are dozens of ways innovators have come up with to deal with it. I agree with you that a lot of the market solutions are a balance between labor and time. WaxOyl, POR, FF, etc. Lots of different ways to solve the same problem.

Dagosa, this has been fun. You are quite the evangelical when it comes to rusty frames. I hope your frame lasts you a very, very long time. And I promise to never buy a vehicle that has a freshly painted frame.

 

You're a good man obviously with a good sense of humor to take my "abuse" . Looked at under a magnifying device, all rust penetrates into the metal. That's why it's so difficult to remove rust with out removing good metal. This is the fallacy of so called surface rust. Nothing wrong with painting rust free surface, but painting one continually for rust prevention has to be done so frequently before rust penetrates far, it isn't worth the effort. Then reprainting , just hides the rusted surface.

My thought is that the high strength steel will mitigate the problem. Surface coating before welding doesn't work because welding breaks down the coating. That is where most rust begins at the welds, often at the joints. High strength steel helps alleviate this problem. But, they still should not be painted.

Our idea of sealing is different. There are epoxy grade paints and many others that seal topically. But, because a true paint, not the real expensive ones, lack the flow characteristics and bonding when dry as the frame flexes, any break in the surface opens to a separation between the paint and the metal. You see it all the time when you chip paint away from a scratch, you remove much more paint than around the scratch and still you see rust extend much farther then the scratch. The pores extend between the paint and th surface.

The rust has corroded into the metal and has weaken it. You can call it surface rust but it still is just term to justify rust that still weakens a structure. Only oil based, wax based or grease , non drying agents can flex and remain adhered to the metal, minimizing the rust area if any is removed.

 

Btw, one parting reason for not painting frames. It's a safety reason and frames must be routinely inspected in high rust areas for integrity. Just like it is mportant at to never buy wooden ladder that has been painted, it's important to never buy a use vehicle with a painted frame. Everything needs to be visible for inspection and there is a lot of rust damage that might not be. For your ownership years and your non road salt area, it could be fine. But painting your frame and not treating it as I have indicated makes it less sale able to a knowledgable buyer. A dealer may not care if it looks OK. But, I would get on a lift and start prodding suspected areas, body and frame with a blade screwdriver. The flex of the frame induces cracks you will never see...that makes paint poor too.

 

Rust Cure Formula 3000 FTW

 

If you live out in the desert, I wouldn't worry about it at all. I see what Dagosa is saying and yes it's still rusting down there no matter where you are but if it takes 50 years to get to the same point out in the desert that you'd see in the rust belt in just a decade, does it really matter at that point? Things take a LONG time to decay in that kind of environment. There's an old Anasazi rope bridge in the Grand Canyon and archaeologists can still identify it as such even though most of it's gone. In the Midwest that entire thing would have been mulch 700 years ago.

 

Thanks OZ. I'm gonna look into this more. Seems like a very good product. My rust isn't bad yet. When you apply this, what type of surface prep do you need to do to areas that are already showing signs of rust?

 

It's good you stay on top of it early. They don't call rust cancer for nothing. No one approach or product is necessarily better then another and there is no cure. You contain rust and slow it down with elbow grease and a variety of products, approaches and strategies.

 

You're bummed that you're not going to see how the stuff worked because you're getting a new frame??? LOL, why don't you do the same treatment to the new frame and keep it from ever starting? I'd be happier than a pig eating crap.

 

Usually powerwash the area then apply it

 

From jeep forum....this poster had a neat concoction. There are a lot of strategies that work well. And some are real cheap.

I've found a homemade rust preventive that I use down here on the gulf coast (salt water 10feet from my back door) that works really good.

Get a gallon of mineral spiritsin a bucket. Throw in 1lb ground up paraffin wax or you can buy a couple of toilet bowl wax rings. Grind up the wax and mix it with the mineral spirits.

It will take several weeks to dissolve on its own, or you can do like I do and use a cheap aquariumheater to heat the solution up to dissolve the wax. Once the wax is dissolved you add about a quart of light non-detergent oil like SAE 30.

The way the stuff works is the wax and oil stay in solution (mineral spirits) which makes it easy to spray in every nook and cranny. Once sprayed the mineral spiritsevaporates and leaves a oily/waxy covering over the surface.

If you scratch the wax, the oil from the wax around it will creep into the crack and protect it.

I tested this stuff by taking a foot long piece of bare steel and sanding nice and smooth. I sprayed it with the mineral spirits/wax/oil mix and hung it off my dock so it would be under water at high tide and exposed at low tide.

After a month there isn't a speck of rust on it. I even took a nail and gouged the wax off to see what would happen. In the spot where I gauged it down there is still no rust.

From what I understand the recipe has been around for a long time and is regarded as homemade waxoyl.

 

Tremendous idea

 

When oil and wax each have their own advantages, wax with it's ability to be built up and oil with it's flow characteristics, you get the best of both it seems.......

 

How many people that have sprayed fluid film are gonna be under their trucks rubbing wax toilet rings on the frame?

 

I see nothing wrong with a waxed based product on the out side of the frame, but I would use an oil based like motor oil which is lower viscosity on the inside. This is a critical area as much rust starts from the inside. You need material that will flow like oil to more areas.

 

My Tacoma has been back for about a month now and all is well. The frame looks and feels new. Nice and tight. Came with the a-arms and rear leafs already attached.

Bobby Rahal did a GREAT job. Cost me $277. Most of that cost was because the gas door rusted off and I needed a new one to pass PA yearly inspection. They did try for brakes about $700 but I declined and replaced them all around for $200 - rotors, pads and shoes. I knew the brakes were suspect 6 months ago when I took it in for inspection.

The list of replacement parts was extensive.

The service rep said it cost them about $6300 for the rental (6 months) and about $11,000 for the frame replacement.

I have no idea how Toyota is making this frame replacement work at that price. There is a stack of frames in the back and a line of Gen 2's waiting for them.

Next up is to get some Fluid Film and coat the frame and under body. Going to wait until after Christmas expenses for this purchase.

Next year going to see if I can afford some Body Armour bumpers.

Good luck getting this Tacoma out of my cold dead hands