My first snow drive

There is nothing like ground clearance when the snow ❄️ s deep. Without enough of it, even a Hummer gets stuck.

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Great to hear. Thanks for the pic. The only thing about the Taco is the slippery composite bed. Ha ha, I noticed you too have a rubber mat to keep the bags ( and anything else) from sliding around. They should make it standard.
.....have a safe and fun winter

 

No worries. In reality “winter” driving condition can mean a hundred different things and all depends on the climate we each live in. I think that’s why some of these snow driving threads can get heated so fast. Something that works in one place doesn’t necessarily work in another. Except for as you pointed out the obvious that is universal in all conditions, SLOW DOWN.

 

I had my blizzaks mounted Sunday, we got some snow last night (no where near what they were calling for) so this mornings drive in to work was on snow covered roads.

I pretty much stayed in 2wd the whole time they gripped so well. Took quite a bit of brake to get the ABS to kick on, and quite a bit of skinny pedal to spin the rears.

I had some sandbags in back my first winter with the stock tires, which was needed to accelerate at all in 2wd. I don't see any need for them now with the snow tires.

 

Who adds sand bags to there bed? What a waste of perfectly good sand. If you lack the skill to drive in snow and need weight in the bed, stop shoveling the snow out of it.

 

I agree with this based on my experience.

OP was still going too fast for conditions. This is why my insurance costs too much.

 

I hear you. For the 11 years we had the 4 runner instead of an open truck, I bought a Tule atv trailer and put sides on it to use for loads.

 

Ha ha....
Surely you jest.

 

Ha ha....Im not buying it...sorry.
That (the film) was possibly a truck two decades old when no one had abs.
Now, braking has little to do with how many wheels are driven. Look at the truck....it’s an oldy without abs.

If you lock any wheel in snow, like an ice skate, it warns the ice and creates with heat friction, a much more slippery surface. That’s why wet snow has a lower coefficient of friction. Abs tries to mitigate the loss of control and retain steerage which is most important in most conditions. It also decreases stopping distance on some surfaces but increases them on others and may increase stopping distances in conditions like this, but only marginally . The importance is in maintaining steerage and tracking. The film has no practical value for today’s vehicles.

 

now, thats a dumb statement.. the weight is put forward of the rear axle to help the tire grip the pavement. putting the wieght forward of the rear axle (or above it for that matter) keeps all 4 tires planted, and allows the tires to reach their potential for winter grip. if you put the weight rearward of the rear axle you are adding weight to the rear axle, but reducing weight on the front tires.. so place weight forward, or on top of the rear axle for best results.. I found that binding 4 70lb tubes together across the bed with paracord, and using a ratchet strap across the front tie downs works great. tubes stay in place, and weight is focused near the center of the truck allowing for steering, braking, and ability to take off from a start.. another option as stated before is to get a plastic tote (careful as freezing temps will cause plastic to break much easier), and fill it with sand, or a sand and salt mix... you can use this to spread for more traction if you do get stuck, or want to help others.

 

yup. Good explanation. It seems that balancing the braking surfaces helps the vehicle track while braking...braking under control without going into a spin is very important. Weight in the back but centered helps a lot. .
The problem is, you can’t maximize traction for accelerating in quite the same place for braking. So location is always a bit of a compromise.

 

Always liked that picture. It says it all.

 

He do, or drives a FWD vehicle lmao!

 

Not to sound like too much of an ass (hopefully just the right amount to drive my point across), but I promise no one on this forum has driven with less traction than me. You may have equalled my traction, but there's no way you've had less. I'm not claiming I make the best decisions, just simply I know what traction is and isn't.

Now, story time: I worked on the North Slope of Alaska for a few winters, and the eternal wisdom of a Texas based company decided that all terrains were good enough (not even snowflake rating, I've sent emails to no avail to remedy this, after I left my coworker got into an accident in a parking lot and got fired because he skidded into another truck at 2mph, but that's another story) for winter driving up there. I'm talking about literally driving on the Arctic ocean. Driving to oil rigs across the Tundra that can only be reached a couple months of the year because first roads have to be made first, out of ice, layer by layer, exactly like ice hockey rinks. (except ice rinks have more traction because they are at least flat and uniform)
You have not experienced traction until you've driven 6 hours one-way at 15mph of straight-ish flat ground in 4wd and barely staying on the "road" because you have summer tires. It's not the funnest thing.
I much prefer all the interstates lol, even in blizzards. Hell, I'd rather do my Texas to Washington move again in a uhaul towing a car trailer in summer tires and no abs. I was still passing everyone on the interstate (not my proudest moment, everyone was just going too fckn slow and I still had 8 hours ahead of me). If there was an accident in front of me I couldn't have stopped, but at no time was I out of control. In retrospect I'm glad I'm older now, I'd probably go 5-10mph slower...

A couple of neat slope pics of "good" traction days lol.

https://ibb.co/st8FHXc
https://ibb.co/0f6mykW

Literally the worst thing to do is use the engine to slow your vehicle in low traction. Literally the best thing to do is use your brakes to slow your vehicle. Abs is everything when O-shit happens. Engine has zero abs. Brakes have all the abs.
Now, I know you probably mean manage a steady state low deceleration to moderate your speed instead of using brakes to apply a shorter duration but more forceful change of speed, and I agree with you. But it comes with risks. It's all about low probability and high risk, VS higher probability and lower risk tradeoffs. Any actuaries wanna weigh in?


Edit: asking because I don't actually know:
I keep seeing mention of risks due to having the center diff locked. What does that actually have to do with traction at the wheels? If the front and rear diff are still open, does it actually matter traction-wise? The only time I can see 4wd be a detriment is if the rear or front (good luck on a stock Tacoma) locker is engaged as well. Traction control will just step in with braking individual wheels and the open diffs just sort it all out.
But I could be wrong, if I am please let me know and I can adjust my world view.
Thanks.

Edit2: my world view on the first edit comes from teenager me trying to do donuts in my open diffed truck in high school. No matter what I did, one wheel spun while the other stayed planted. I can only imagine the same happens in snow (to a lesser degree since I've done my fair share of sudden unexpected 180's in 2wd). I've always been able to control where my vehicle ends up in a rear skid (if not the direction I end up facing).

 

I’ll give it a try. I have ice racing experience on lakes. We still drive out on our lake after it’s frozen over to ice fish. I also help snow removal and sanding for our road association on a mountainous road.

Our area gets as much as 200 inches of snow some years and starting three days ago, the road going out for two miles is and will remain ice and snow covered for most of the winter. We drive on ice and snow nearly every day just to go to work, drop off the trash and get the mail......and it’s my job to deal with it. We have to wear ice grippers just to get to our cars today.....not unusual.

Really, it’s also not unusual in this area if you don’t go south for the winter.I also worked as a contracted driver for commercial snow removal, ( plowing and sanding) Check the posts. Most are excellent including yours. There is a lot if equally good experience here.

Am I getting close ?

 

You've definately got more experience than I do. But nothing can compare to layers of water spray (I believe it's hot so it doesn't freeze before landing on the road lol, so any imperfections that would actually improve traction are smoothed out).
Ive driven on tons of lakes and the ocean, relatively "good" traction due to air bubbles/snow drifts/heavy traffic w/chains/etc.
Its absolutely insane. I couldn't even safely get out to take a leak (not that I would ever have risked contaminating the environment out there......) without crampons (that barely worked because ice gets hard at -50).

Edit: if you wanna compare, take half of your front porch and just Shovel it this winter. Then on the other half, pour a glass of water on it every day. I'm not responsible for your hospital bills

 

I hear you. It sounds similar the the freezing rain many areas get when the road surfaces are sub freezing to begin with and the warmer air and rain hit the surface, fill in all the irregularities then instantly freeze over.

The killer around here isn’t just the slippery conditions, it’s the steep terrain that goes with it. Hills magnify every characteristic that creates problems in winter driving. We keep several pairs of grippers in all our winter vehicles. They’re standard fair.
Medical bills ? You got it. It comes with the winter.

Be safe.

 

Apparently you've never heard of a garage....

 

Coming from a forester xt, I hope I have a safe winter