My Opinion & Thoughts: 6AT vs 6MT

I just upgraded from a 2005 TRD OR 6MT to a 2023 TRD OR 6MT. My impressions are:
* The new motor is just fine, and in fact seems harder to lug than the 4L
* The transmission feels identical, but the final drive feels taller.

I actually think on the stock vehicle, the final drive is too tall off the lot. It probably only gets worse if you put larger tires on. 6th gear is a true overdrive gear now, and not useful until 75mph. I will probably regear the final drive once the warranty runs out, but run stock tires and leave it alone for a few years.

While I feel the final drive is too tall, its only by a smidge, and I am loving the truck.

 

There are certainly pros and cons to the 5th and 6th both being ODs, and while a lot of people claim 5th is useless, it’s actually pretty useful for cruising at a reasonable rpm when 6th feels too tall. Whereas if 5th had been 1:1, you’d be dropping to the equivalent of 4th which would make for better passing power (while only shifting one gear) but not enjoyable to cruise in long range as an alternative to a too-tall 6th scenario. So pros and cons for sure, but 6th being tall sometimes is what makes 5th great, because it’s still a highway speed ratio that has more power without revving unnecessarily high.

 

The fact that reverse feels too tall gives me the impression this was not a well thought out decision, it feels like they just took the purposefully geared 6MT from the 2nd gen and slapped a taller final drive on it. Nobody has ever wanted two overdrives on an off-road vehicle, it doesn't make any sense. I'm not arguing that 5th is useless, but having spend over 10 years driving the 2nd gen, it felt geared more thoughtfully than this one does. I will say, there were times in the city with the 2nd gen where it felt like the crowded lower gears forced me to row a bit much.

 

See I don’t know where any of that comes from, because actually the 2nd gen and 3rd gen 6MTs are geared about the same once their final drives (3.73 vs 4.30) are taken into consideration.

2nd gen (3.73 axle ratio)

1 - 4.17 X 3.73 = 15.55 final ratio
2 - 2.19 X 3.73 = 8.17 final ratio
3 - 1.49 X 3.73 = 5.56 final ratio
4 - 1.19 X 3.73 = 4.44 final ratio
5 - 1.00 X 3.73 = 3.73 final ratio
6 - 0.84 X 3.73 = 3.13 final ratio
R - 3.61 X 3.73 = 13.47

3rd gen (4.30 axle ratio)

1 - 3.98 X 4.30 = 17.11
2 - 2.02 X 4.30 = 8.69
3 - 1.32 X 4.30 = 5.68
4 - 1.00 X 4.30 = 4.30
5 - 0.85 X 4.30 = 3.65
6 - 0.71 X 4.30 = 3.05
R - 3.39 X 4.30 = 14.57

Overall the first three final drive ratios in the 3rd gen are slightly shorter (higher rpm) and the last 3 are slightly taller (lower rpm), but not by much. On the highway in 6th, a stock 2nd and 3rd gen will be within 90 rpm of each other at highway speed. 70 mph should be 2525 rpm in the 2nd gen, and 2435 rpm with the 3rd gen.

Reverse is better/lower on the 3rd gen than the 2nd, but it still sucks.

I’m not really sure what 2 ODs has to do with offroading, because most offroading happens in the lower gears. As shown in comparing ratios, even though the 2nd gen didn’t have 2 ODs, the way it was geared in the axles made it where the rpm and final ratios were about on par with the 3rd gen, because the 2nd gen only has a 0.84 6th.

I think what you are feeling different between the two is the more powerful 4.0L.

 

Good info on the ratios. My point on the location of 1:1/overdrive is, if you have 6 gears, and draw the line of 1:1 at 5th, that gives you 4 "underdrive" gears for offroad towards the low end, vs with 1:1 at 4th, you have two "highway" gears.

The differences in feel don't line up with the ratios as listed but the math doesn't lie. I could just be accustomed to the old ratio and complaining about nothing. I do recall on the 2nd gen 1st gear being nearly a crawl-gear vs 1st on the 3rd gen feeling a lot more useable on road, but the ratios don't agree with me.

 

Why? it's not the tires.

 

I think it’s probably a few things, one being the engine and one being the tune, and just overall different sounds from each and such. The stock 3rd gen tune feels very padded in the throttle, basically meaning that you have to push the pedal really far to get any acceleration out of it. So the 3rd gen to me felt like the gearing was taller even though it wasn’t. Once I got my truck tuned it felt a lot different in that aspect. The numbers between each gen are pretty close, yet they still feel quite different.

I do get what you’re saying about where the 1:1 is, and how many highway gears you have, although honestly the 2nd gen still kind of has two highway gears. It’s 5th gear 1:1 with 3.73 axle ratio nets about the same final ratio as our 0.85 5th on 4.30.

but anyways, I do think most of what you’re feeling is just differences in the engine management and the motor vs the actual gearing ratios.

 

said no one ever

 

I

have

Have either of your tried 4 Low in 1st yet? The 2nd gen really did crawl in that sense. I am really curious how well it do on a few hills I need to climb to get to my elk hunting spot next fall.

 

They both have the same transfer case, and the 3rd Gen Has a slightly lower final drive ratio in 1st gear, if both trucks are stock. So, the 3rd gen theoretically should have a better crawl ratio. However, the actual feel may vary depending on the engine.

 

My experience has been that if I lug my truck and if Im doing it on certain terrains , it seems confused. If I just drive it with purpose , I experience zero issues. These motors like to be revved a bit. And the transmission will act accordingly.

 

Re: "302" Ummm-Ummmm-Ummmmmm.... I had that engine in the first new car I ever bought. What an engine. (I'm not going to reveal the year: sorry! Any knowledgeable Ford fan can do the math. ) Anyway, I talk cars with my nephews and nieces all the time, especially trucks, and when the "5.0" comes up in conversation, I never fail to translate it into "the 302"....... ....returned by blank stares, confused looks, and silence. I make it worse by casually slipping "289 grandchild" into the discussion. Fun stuff and adds to the conclusion that "uncle is slipping" is running through their minds. Next time we're all together for Christmas, I'll have to make it a point to work " the Ford I6 into the conversation and then add a "4.9" liter reference. They won't know what to do.

 

Idk why so many rag on the auto in these trucks. I've found mine to work as good, or better than my gen1 tundra. All shift points happen spot on vs the road conditions. No hunting like it did for the first 1k miles or so. Truck has plenty of pep right off idle, not at all sluggish like a buddies v6 tacoma that he had. Just the other day pulling into traffic off the on ramp onto the highway, it felt just as strong off the bottom as my old v8 tundra.

 

Only the hybrid versions have planetary gears the regular gas models come with a belt and pulley!

 

Shouldn't it be the RPM divided by the diff gear ratio to get the final gear ratio?

Higher the diff ratio, lower the speed, higher the torque. That's why people regear to taller gears to drive bigger tires.
Maybe i'm wrong.

 

I am 29

I will report back, I hope this one likes to eat just as much as the last one.

 

I tried all over the place. Check weekly next allotment comes out tomorrow. Grand Junction Colorado and New Mexico. I picked up mine in Idaho. If any dealers give me a call on one this week I will shoot you a DM

 

Thank you. I live in ID but couldn’t buy one in Lewiston because I was out of market.
Have a deposit on one on the lot in WA. Should be able to pick it up on Monday if this snow doesn’t reroute every plane west of the Mississippi.
487 mile drive from dealership to home. Anything I need to know? Don’t drive too fast? Is that a thing anymore? Thanks again.

 

During the first 1000 miles you are supposed to vary engine speed, so no cruise control on the way back haha

 

noticed that with about 500 pounds of weight in my bed my truck shifted much better (automatic). no more gear hunting or upshifting to 6th gear at every opportunity. seemed to shift a lot better after driving on the highway for an hour...maybe it still had some learning to do as i don't typically drive on the highway. drove like a dream on my camping trip this past weekend. really surprised me. the suspension also felt a lot better. I think my truck was designed to haul weight so it drives like crap when empty. I have the SR utility package which is the typical fleet vehicle.