1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

My tacoma audio upgrade

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by rkilgore76, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Oct 28, 2018 at 4:58 PM
    #41
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Does this help?

    20181028_195056.jpg
    20181028_195112.jpg
     
  2. Oct 28, 2018 at 5:00 PM
    #42
    mctechhweng

    mctechhweng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Member:
    #260429
    Messages:
    359
    First Name:
    Matthew
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD Sport V6.
    Audio: Focal PC165, Focal KX2, JL VX800/8i, Pioneer AVIC-8200.
    Thanks! Those were perfect!
     
  3. Oct 28, 2018 at 5:01 PM
    #43
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Awesome!!Hope it helped you like you helped me!
     
  4. Oct 28, 2018 at 7:05 PM
    #44
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    painted latches to match carpet.

    20181028_210457.jpg
    IMG_20181028_220032_190.jpg
     
    mctechhweng likes this.
  5. Oct 29, 2018 at 4:58 PM
    #45
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Worked some today on my truck after work.

    45054162_10155758703541551_7774768606880989184_n.jpg
    44997931_10155758703576551_4525015373690437632_n.jpg
    45000667_10155758703616551_5057461335504191488_n.jpg
    45011669_10155758703676551_386461466531725312_n.jpg
    44971981_10155758703771551_9112298878295605248_n.jpg
    45121119_10155758703726551_5344056278303899648_n.jpg
    45055738_10155758703821551_4858223175646838784_n.jpg
     
    2Loud, mctechhweng and CoastieRon like this.
  6. Nov 2, 2018 at 8:58 PM
    #46
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Member:
    #61468
    Messages:
    1,704
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2003 4x4 V6 X-Cab SR5
    Shocks. Pegs. Lucky.
    Even the most expensive passive speakers use caps in the crossovers. Caps are your friend. Pinky swear. I'd write out my own version here, but Audiofrog's owner and designer, Andy Wehmeyer is probably more believable anyway:

    Linky

    Lets say you park your car on a hill. Let's also say it's a standard transmission, and you leave it in gear. It should be there when you return, right? Sure. The transmission SHOULD hold it in place. But what if a mishap occurs? What if someone tries to parallel park behind you and bumps your car and the transmission pops out of gear? Your car rolls down the hill and crashes into a pole. Then what? Do you call the manufacturer of the car and expect them to cover it under warranty?

    Good luck with that.

    That's what the parking brake is for. It's a fail-safe. Does the existence of the parking brake adversely affect the performance of the car? Well, if you want to be nit-picky, I suppose it does. Removing it would remove a little weight which would increase the power to weight ratio of the car. Is that a meaningful enhancement in performance? Is the enhancement in performance worth the risk? If you're not paying for the damage an unforeseen failure causes, then maybe so.

    So, what does this have to do with tweeters? Keep reading.

    First, let's think for a minute about a tweeter's job. It's supposed to reproduce high frequencies. Making a tweeter that does that job well requires a bit of optimization. Since we don't need a tweeter to make bass, we eliminate all the things that would be required to make bass because they are detrimental to high frequency performance. The two biggest detriments to making high frequencies are diaphragm diameter and weight--going forward, we'll refer to weight as "mass".

    First, one of the rules for speakers is that for any given input power, excursion (how far the cone or dome has to move) is quadrupled for every halving of frequency. For example, if the cone is moving 1 mm at 100Hz, it has to move 4 mm at 50 Hz and 8 mm at 25Hz. Speakers designed to make bass have to move a long way. Speakers designed to make high frequencies don't.

    The voice coil is the part of the speaker that determines how far the motor can drive the diaphragm. Below is a picture of a subwoofer's voice coil and a tweeter's voice coil. It's pretty easy to determine which one is designed to make bass and which one cannot make bass.The subwoofer's voice coil is nearly 2" long and the tweeter's voice coil is about 1/32" long. Applying a bass signal to the tweeter with enough power will cause it to try to move far past its limits and the tweeter will be damaged. The excursion limited (mechanical) power handling of the tweeter is MUCH lower than the subwoofer.

    [​IMG]


    The amount of power that a speaker can handle is also determined by the voice coil's ability to dissipate heat. The resistance of the coil determines how much current flows through it and that resistance turns some of the power into heat. The rest of the power is turned into motion. The ability of the coil to dissipate heat is determined, mostly, by its surface area. It's pretty easy to see in the picture above which one is going to handle the most power.

    So, what's the difference between 100 watts at 50 Hz and 100 watts at 5 kHz? In terms of excursion, there's a big difference. At 50 Hz the speaker has to move a lot farther. In terms of thermal power handling, not much, if we're talking about test tones. But what about music?

    Below is the frequency response of a song we've all heard a thousand times: Hotel California. You can see that in the recording, there's a lot more bass than there is information at high frequencies.



    [​IMG]


    If we think about the distribution of energy in terms of amplifier power, things become a little clearer. In the picture below, I've indicated the amount of amplifier power necessary to reproduce this track. If your amplifier produces 100 watts at low frequencies, it only needs to be able to make about 6 watts between 1 kHz and 2.5 kHz to play this track. At really high frequencies, 1/10 of a watt is all that's needed. So, no matter how powerful your amplifier is, when you listen to Hotel California, your amp doesn't actually make much power at really high frequencies and that's just fine for the little voice coil in the tweeter.



    [​IMG]


    In a simple passive crossover, we use a capacitor to limit the amount of low frequencies that make it to the tweeter. This does two things: 1) it protects the tweeter from the application of too much power at low frequencies, and 2) it helps us shape the response of the tweeter to match the response of the midrange. Below is a picture of the frequency response of a tweeter with and without a capacitor.



    [​IMG]


    It's pretty easy to see that the low frequency output of the tweeter is reduced. We can change the value of the capacitor to change the frequency where the low frequency attenuation begins. A bigger cap begins to attenuate at a lower frequency.

    The cap is placed in series with the tweeter, as in the diagram below,



    [​IMG]


    Here's how that works. As I mentioned above, the resistance of the voice coil determines how much current flows from the amp and through the speaker. A capacitor, simply stated, increases the resistance of the circuit at low frequencies. If the resistance of the circuit is increased, less current flows. The amplifier makes less power at frequencies where the resistance is higher.

    Below is a graph of the impedance curve of the tweeter with and without the cap. At low frequencies, the impedance is much higher.



    [​IMG]


    Here's how that affects the amount of power the amp produces. This shapes the frequency response and protects the tweeter.



    [​IMG]


    In an active system, we use a different means to shape the tweeter's response and to remove bass from the signal. We put the high pass filter BEFORE the amplifier. This provides lots of benefits. We're able to tune the system much more easily and we can implement nearly any filter, especially if we're using a DSP. Below is what that circuit looks like--I've inserted an active filter before the amp and after the head unit (the signal source).



    [​IMG]


    So, with the active filter, we shape the response of the tweeter as in the graph below. This is a 24dB/oct Linkwitz-Riley high pass filter at 2.5 kHz. Looks great.



    [​IMG]


    We HOPE that nothing bad happens in the DSP or the amplifier, because anything that is produced INSIDE of those components AFTER the active filter will be passed straight to the tweeter. Turn on and turn off pops? Straight to the tweeter. Amplifier failure? Straight to the tweeter. Engine noise? Straight to the tweeter. An erroneous crossover or EQ setting in the DSP? Straight to the tweeter. If any of those erroneous signals make it to the tweeter, it's likely to be damaged. This damage isn't because the tweeter is defective. It's because we applied too much voltage to the tweeter at frequencies it was never designed to handle. Should that be covered under warranty?

    Does Ford give you a new car when you forget to set the parking brake?

    But no one told you to set the parking brake.

    There's a simple parking brake for a tweeter and it's a capacitor. Using a capacitor in an active system is a fail-safe. Above, I mentioned that a large cap begins to attenuate low frequency energy at a lower frequency. What if we choose a value that doesn't affect the frequency response in the range of frequencies where we want the tweeter to play, but does limit exposure to errors that could damage the tweeter?

    Below is the full circuit that includes the active filter and the protection capacitor.



    [​IMG]


    Now we've shaped the response with the active filter and protected the tweeter with a cap that has very little effect on the performance of the tweeter. You can see the difference between the frequency response with and without the cap below.



    [​IMG]


    Is there a difference? Well, yes. There's a tiny difference. About 1/2 a dB between 1.8 kHz and 2.5 kHz. IS that difference meaningful? Not if you consider that the response of the tweeter is attenuated by about 12dB at those frequencies. Does the cap have any affect at higher frequencies where the tweeter's performance is important? No. None. Zilch. Nada.

    In order for this to work we have to choose the value of the cap so its effects are outside the range of frequencies where we want only the active filter to affect the tweeter's performance. For this tweeter, with a nominal impedance of 4 ohms, I've chosen a 68 uF cap. That's a standard value and they're available from Parts-express.com.

    Finally, there are lots of different kinds of caps. Which one should you choose? Some people will tell you that you need one of those super-duper polypropylene caps and that you should NEVER use an electrolytic cap. For this application, that's hogwash. For this exercise, I've used an electrolytic cap. Below are pictures of the two caps that are available from Parts Express. The first is an electrolytic. It's costs about $1.75.



    [​IMG]


    The second one is a polypropylene cap. It costs about $29.



    [​IMG]
    Be sure to choose NON-POLAR caps. Those are the ones without the stripe and the (-).

    Either one is fine for this application. Spending the additional $27.25 is, from a technical perspective, completely unnecessary. Get your car washed a couple of times instead or take your sweetie to a movie.

    But...all tweeters need caps. They're like parking brakes, not like condoms. Your enjoyment of your system won't be hampered by the use of tweeter protection and you'll never have to run to the store to get new tweeters before you can enjoy your system.

    Andy Wehmeyer
    President
    Audiofrog, Inc.
     
  7. Nov 3, 2018 at 6:29 PM
    #47
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Work on it for a few hours,Should have it all ready tomorrow besides tuning.

    45298676_10155768521431551_2070569953483816960_n.jpg
    45298967_10155768520911551_7646691101566304256_n.jpg
    45324675_10155768525036551_8433461305544802304_n.jpg
    45409977_10155768521251551_6877868745579036672_n.jpg
    45370925_10155768521516551_6144090067141918720_n.jpg
    45306465_10155768521626551_3058318977370423296_n.jpg
    45437289_10155768520976551_5497593675439407104_n.jpg
     
  8. Nov 5, 2018 at 4:58 PM
    #48
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Got the seats back in and all the amps and dsp lights came on...Circuit breaker under the hood failed..Ordered a new one.

    20181104_112946.jpg
    IMG_20181104_153711_339.jpg
    20181104_152930.jpg
     
    whatstcp, xxTacocaTxx and mctechhweng like this.
  9. Nov 10, 2018 at 2:47 PM
    #49
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Circuit breaker complete.Jl TWK 88 lights up.

    20181110_165316.jpg
    IMG_20181110_173043_387.jpg
    IMG_20181110_173043_388.jpg
    IMG_20181110_173043_386.jpg
    IMG_20181110_173043_385.jpg
     
    xxTacocaTxx and mctechhweng like this.
  10. Nov 11, 2018 at 6:31 PM
    #50
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Wash and wax after install.

    45886332_10155783592781551_7170508399581331456_n.jpg
    46107831_10155783592706551_6466065679215755264_n.jpg
     
    chrslefty likes this.
  11. Nov 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM
    #51
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    tun software...tun sets basic crossovers for you automatically..i just got to get use to it..lol

    20181119_164012.jpg
    20181119_165244.jpg
    20181119_165842.jpg
     
  12. Nov 19, 2018 at 7:33 PM
    #52
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Member:
    #61468
    Messages:
    1,704
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2003 4x4 V6 X-Cab SR5
    Shocks. Pegs. Lucky.
    Boy it sets your tweeter/midwoofer crossover point awful high. And curiously overlaps all crossover points. Wierd way to set up the matrix too. Looks like plenty to tinker with though
     
    rkilgore76[OP] likes this.
  13. Nov 20, 2018 at 3:38 PM
    #53
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Hey rob! Yes it does set it high..I think they just give you a starting point..I still got to set the gains since i unlocked the dsp on the lap top.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  14. Dec 1, 2018 at 12:06 PM
    #54
    mctechhweng

    mctechhweng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Member:
    #260429
    Messages:
    359
    First Name:
    Matthew
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD Sport V6.
    Audio: Focal PC165, Focal KX2, JL VX800/8i, Pioneer AVIC-8200.
    The transmission/parking brake example is cute, but it's not exactly a sensible comparison; A cap is more like a surge protector or a circuit breaker than a parking brake.

    The question is simple and derived from risk management:
    What is the probability of a surge & how much work are you willing to do to protect yourself against a surge? (You can never be 100% protected)

    When we talk about a well designed digital amplifier the risk is extremely low. Low enough for me to leave out the cap in my system.

    There is no such thing as a fail safe audio system. Amplifiers and power supplies can fail in extraordinary ways which can start fires as well as blow out the entire system.

    Use your own judgement. I trust the VXI amp enough for me to not use caps.
     
  15. Dec 1, 2018 at 9:37 PM
    #55
    rob feature

    rob feature Tacos!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Member:
    #61468
    Messages:
    1,704
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2003 4x4 V6 X-Cab SR5
    Shocks. Pegs. Lucky.
    At least your tweeters can survive :D
     
  16. Jan 7, 2019 at 6:36 PM
    #56
    rkilgore76

    rkilgore76 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Member:
    #77516
    Messages:
    323
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Richard Kilgore
    beaufort,sc
    Vehicle:
    2011 toyota tacoma
    Focal 165a component,Focal 165 coax,Avic930bt,Fosgate amp 75x4.Box by Mr.Marv,10 inch Pioneer shallow mount,Rockford amp.
    Big 3 upgrade..Worked! Glad i did it!

    49210806_10155893067121551_4115599304121384960_o.jpg
    49256030_10155893066981551_5521232651450580992_o.jpg
    49447905_10155893067036551_4305365987349233664_o.jpg
    49482963_10155893067256551_61719350058418176_o.jpg
    49397736_10155893066781551_8008322636310380544_o.jpg
    49310557_10155893067331551_3371700007697645568_o.jpg
    49587694_10155893067396551_1333364866102067200_o.jpg
    49706003_10155893067441551_809349345269776384_o.jpg
    49688578_10155893066881551_5072837065020801024_o.jpg
     
    mctechhweng likes this.
  17. Jan 7, 2019 at 9:33 PM
    #57
    mctechhweng

    mctechhweng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Member:
    #260429
    Messages:
    359
    First Name:
    Matthew
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD Sport V6.
    Audio: Focal PC165, Focal KX2, JL VX800/8i, Pioneer AVIC-8200.
    When you say it "worked" you mean it didn't fry your electrical system? Or it fixed a problem with the system? Or something improved?

    Did you get a pic of the new wire on the alternator output bolt? I want to see how it bolted on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  18. Jan 8, 2019 at 9:47 AM
    #58
    xxTacocaTxx

    xxTacocaTxx Well Unknown Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Member:
    #237709
    Messages:
    1,077
    Best Slope CO
    Vehicle:
    2017 TRD OR DCLB 4x4 OMGWTFLOLBBQ
    RCI skid plates Mobtown sliders Lots of patches and MESO stuff
    I've seen the term "big three" in a few audio builds, but haven't been able to figure out the meaning. Would you be able to explain?
     
  19. Jan 8, 2019 at 10:57 AM
    #59
    mctechhweng

    mctechhweng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Member:
    #260429
    Messages:
    359
    First Name:
    Matthew
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD Sport V6.
    Audio: Focal PC165, Focal KX2, JL VX800/8i, Pioneer AVIC-8200.
    Big 3 is when you increase the gauge of the charging/battery harness.

    I don't think "Big 3" is the best description b/c in the Tacoma it's actually a "Big 4". The idea is that you don't want the wires at the battery to be the bottle-neck for your system. If you don't upgrade the Alternator then you probably don't need to upgrade the output wire or the engine ground, but the frame & body ground wires are quite small in the Tacoma.

    You increase the size of the following wires:
    - Alternator output (+)
    - Frame to Battery Ground (-)
    - Engine to Battery Ground (-).
    - Body to Ground (-)
     
    xxTacocaTxx[QUOTED] likes this.
  20. Jan 8, 2019 at 11:57 AM
    #60
    xxTacocaTxx

    xxTacocaTxx Well Unknown Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Member:
    #237709
    Messages:
    1,077
    Best Slope CO
    Vehicle:
    2017 TRD OR DCLB 4x4 OMGWTFLOLBBQ
    RCI skid plates Mobtown sliders Lots of patches and MESO stuff
    Awesome, thanks! :thumbsup:

    I already have the upgraded alternator (tow package). Does Toyota have upgraded wiring for that, or do they use the same size conductors as the regular alternator?
     

Products Discussed in

To Top