My take on EVs--your thoughts?

Seems to me a lot of the debate about EVs stems from a misunderstanding. EVs are a very niche product; they're really only for a very narrow band of people. Setting aside the environmental angle (which is highly debatable anyway), if you don't fit all the criteria, it's not a smart buy for you. If you do, they can be fun to own.

1. Money is not a concern. It's a luxury purchase, not a utility purchase. If you're thinking of buying an EV to save gas money, don't. Sticker price, charging costs, maintenance and repair costs, depreciation, earlier EOL... trust me, you're not saving money over a good ICE vehicle. Although it has probably gotten closer as ICE cars have gone to CVTs and turbos bolted onto 2L engines.
2. You have a place to plug in overnight. Apartment-dwellers need not apply.
3. You own, or are willing to buy, other vehicles for any longer trips. EVs make very inconvenient road trip carriages. It's getting better, but it's not there yet.
4. You're reasonably tech-savvy. If you're someone who needs help setting your clocks, best look elsewhere.
5. You live in a place with a reliable power grid. If your area has rolling brownouts and blackouts, or consumption caps, or is powered by windfarms, well, first of all, you should probably move. But until you do, there's not much point in having an electric car.

What do you think?

 

I’d say you’re wrong on a lot of points.

1. Plenty of cheap EVs that are comparably priced to their ICE sized counterparts. Leaf/Corolla, Tesla 3/Camry are two examples. Yea, there are a lot of expensive EVs but that’s no different than there being a lot of expensive ICE vehicles. People like nice stuff and are willing to pay for it.

Repair costs are negligible, no different than any other vehicle if you don’t crash it and have shitty insurance. Maintenance is pretty much limited to tires, brakes and cabin air filters. There is no defined end of life to base that claim off, in fact the battery pack and motors are typically warrantied for 7-8 years and 100-150k miles, longer than most IVE powertrains.

Charging costs vary based on utility prices but home charging is typically cheap. The average US electricity cost is $0.16/kwh. A full charge on a Tesla model 3 would cost $12.61 or per mile 3.5¢/mile. Average US gas price is $3.11/gal for regular so a Camry would cost $40.43 for a full tank or 6.5¢/mile. Most utilities offer time of use rates that are significantly cheaper at night, in the range of $0.05/kwh which drops a Tesla 3 cost per mile down to 1.1¢/mile.

2. Home charging is easier, cheaper and more convenient but it’s not the only way. I used to charge at the grocery store - just plug in and come out 30 minutes later to nearly a full charge. DC fast charging is more expensive than at home but still cheaper than gas in a lot of areas. The break even point between the example Tesla 3 and Camry is at $0.51/kwh charging cost. Public charging living in an apartment is completely doable but can definitely add a little hassle.

3. Long distance on any fairly major highway or interstate is easily doable anywhere in the country. Backroads and offgrid trips present challenges but you can typically plan a way around those issues and still get it done. Charging is slower than gas but a 30 minute break every 250 miles on a trip you take once or twice a year isn’t a deal breaker.

4. True in some ways but that can be said for a lot of modern vehicles with 18” touch screen displays and limited physical controls.

5. Pretty much the entire US power grid is reliable so that’s a non-factor.

 

That's a load of fallacy and dodge deflect deny. You're making excuses because you want to believe you were justified buying your electric car.

 

The above post is accurate. What do you see as factually incorrect? Unsure why you’re defensive on the matter unless you want to believe you were justified in buying your ICE vehicle.

 

I actually drive a diesel 3500, not an EV. Care to reply with some facts and have a discussion or did you just want to throw a post on the internet to feel cool?

 

Why ask if this is your response. Troll much?

 

Your points above are exactly why my wife and I are considering a used EV to add to the garage. She has a 40 mile commute and EVs are cheaper to operate on a daily basis. Luxurious ones have depreciated like a rock and I think there is a TON of value to find in a slightly used Audi, Porsche, Mercedes EV. They are comfy, quiet, fast as hell, and have much lower day to day operating costs. I won’t buy a Tesla due to their shoddy build quality and more recently Musk’s behavior and rivians are still too expensive. To each their own though

 

ffs guys, are we really gonna play into all of the social media tropes?

No, this is how I responded to being trolled. There is a vast difference between voicing genuine disagreement, and groping for any way, reasonable or not, you can claim that every single thing someone says is wrong so you can make yourself look good by making them look bad. I don't take well to gaslighting, and I don't generally engage with the faux "points" people make in the process of gaslighting. I was asking for genuine responses, not posturing. Read one of my points, then read his argument against it and take just a minute to consider whether what he's saying is actually even true. And also ask yourself if it really negates the point I was making, or if it's just a smokescreen. Then do the same with the overall point of my post. You might be surprised. I'll do a simple one as an example:

Does the entire human race live in the US? Or for that matter, does the fact that "pretty much the entire US power grid is reliable" make power grid reliability a non-factor for people who live in parts of CA or TX where that has not been the case? Do you see the deceptive tactic? Do you see how he's trying to play the authority and seeking adulation by "correcting" everything I said? The internet always loves a good smackdown.

And I'm gonna call this out as well because.. well, because I feel like calling it out I guess. Like I said, I don't like gaslighting.

...just more deceptive word-twisting tactics...nothing to see here...

 

It’s a US based forum with mostly US based users discussing US based life style and events. The power grid in this country is more than capable of handling EV charging, even in Texas and California. Interestingly enough those two states have the highest numbers of registered EVs as well.

Reading comprehension is sometimes difficult so I’ll point out the past tense sentence structure used when I stated “I used to charge at the grocery store.” I owned a R1T in the past but it didn’t fit in with how much towing I do, a significant weakness for EVs.

There’s no trolling or gaslighting here. You made a series of points to which I presented a counter argument. That’s how a discussion works. Feel free to fact check my cost analysis on initial purchase, maintenance and operating costs. You’ll note that I provided the numbers and did real math when pointing out what two comparable vehicles cost in those regards.

I give no fucks about admiration from people on a forum or people in general. You made an argument without merit in many aspects and I simply provided a different view supported by evidence.

 

Bonus exercise: See if you can spot the deceptive tactics in that one ^

I'll get you started: Gaslighters love to throw out a bunch of numbers. It's a well-known hack to make people think highly of you, and therefore think you're right, regardless the actual strength of your arguments... which, in this case, remain very weak. Note, for instance, how he wanted to deep-dive into differences in fuel efficiency, but wanted to gloss over EOL and depreciation. Numbers don't lie, but they can be cherry-picked, manipulated, etc... they can be used to lie.

 

Please enlighten us and provide your numbers on end of life in terms of years of service, secondary component service life, disposal of non-reusable or recyclable end items, etc.

I’m all for a reasonable debate but so far you’ve provided nothing of substance.

 

It's TacomaWorld. 4chan has more substance. lol

 

You ended your initial post saying “what do you think”

now you’ve become abrasive and combative to prove your point. If you don’t care about someone’s opinion (he’s owned EVs, gas vehicles, and diesels) why ask in the first place? A forum isn’t going to change someone’s opinion unless they’re asking for advice.

Everyone’s got a different POV and use case. Chill out. I don’t understand your aggressive angle on a simple “what do you think.”

 

As I may have mentioned, I don't have substance debates with people who've proven they're bad faith actors. I'm open to good faith discussion only. This is where my conversation with you ends.

If anyone else would like to discuss, or needs help seeing the problems with his arguments, I'm happy to engage.

 

You addressed that to the wrong guy. I'm not the one who kicked off the "you're wrong" tone.

 

EV’s availability, range, and charging stations are all on the rise and will be for the foreseeable future. Discrepancies at the local level are just that and need to be addressed locally. Meaning, if you want it better, vote for changes in that direction or stop whining about it. Ford was offering to install one in your house with purchase. Still not going to be for everyone and probably won’t ever be just as some won’t ever own an ice vehicle again. Oh, and closed stations, gas shortages and lines at the pump have been a thing my entire adult life. So have carbeques. 2 world wars drove developement of cars and planes using ice engines and it still took a century to get this far so comparing that head start to the current state of ev drivability is at best disingenuous. If it’s not for you it’s not shameful to admit it, actually, it leaves room for people to chime in with legitimate pros/cons that can lead to improvement.

 

That’s how a discussion between people with differing viewpoints work. You asked what people thought about your statements. I responded with a very simple I think you’re wrong and here’s why. If you can’t handle that then you’re going to have a rough life.