My take on the i-FORCE Max Hybrid System

I think everyone agrees (whether they realize it or not) that EVs are genuinely better but battery technology is what's holding us back. With a 400 mile range and a charge time of 5 minutes this entire debate doesn't exist. People won't need to be forced to buy an EV; they'll prefer it. Hell, even if the power plant is powered by fossil fuels, it's still a net win (there is extremely specific math by Jason of Engineering Explained to prove this). Because let's be frank, Rivian on their version 1 offering made something that kicks the crap out of every other truck on the market. And that's just the beginning!

Be honest, if Toyota unveiled the 4th Gen Tacoma and the below bullet points were the spec sheet you'd literally die from excitement.

• 835hp and 908tq
• 0-60mph in 3 seconds
• 11,000lbs towing capacity
• Heated and Cooled seats (standard)
• 15" of ground clearance on OEM tires
• Front trunk and pass through storage
• Powered retractable tonneau cover
• Onboard air compressor
• Onboard 1500w outlets

 

At what cost 90 grand? Nobody would be excited about dropping that kind of cash on a Tacoma.

 

Sure do like that Rivian, but price and traveling is a pain. Recharge time, extremely poor range while towing those 11,000 lbs. Long waits at charging stations, that is if they even work, not much infrastructure off the main routes. $90K for lots of inconvenience, sign me up!

Lots of people don’t want to pay over $40K for a Tacoma. Any more than that, might as well get a full-size.

 

Dudes have been paying $50k+ for sub 300hp 3rd gens that are pretty much the same truck as the 2005 Tacoma. Keep in mind you get a tax credit and don't have to put gas in it.

1500w is nearly 4x the current power of the outlet in the bed of the 2nd and 3rd gens. 1500w is nearly the same wattage as a typical 15A outlet in your house.

Wait....so now improvements and benefits are a bad thing? Yeah, that's 4" more than the Tacoma....I'm struggling to understand your argument as to why that's a BAD thing. Remember, the Rivian has air suspension and can go up and down 6.5" to make it easy to get in and out of. Clearance when you need it, efficiency and comfort when you don't. Best of both worlds.

Like I said, battery tech is the current issue. Without that as a thorn in the EV's side, it's a completely different discussion. And battery tech is absolutely on its way. It will arrive sooner than you think.

 

Yep, battery tech just isn’t there yet.

The Rivian is my favorite vehicle currently, a client recently bought the SUV. Got to check it out, it sure is sharp, well built, love the interior, very nice without going over the top, spartan but also luxurious at the same time, very mid-century modern feel to it, which is my favorite style of architecture and design. The 4G Tacoma design is quite garish to me. However until batteries improve it is a no go for me.

Solid state batteries supposedly arrives ‘26-27 Toyota keeps telling us. Probably best to skip the 4G Tacoma and wait.

 

Of course the Rivian is awesome but it costs twice as much as most people want to spend on a truck. The other big problem with EVs is the lying about range. When people in the real world only get 2/3 of the supposed range it’s a problem that most vehicle owners don’t want to deal with.

 

How many years have we been hearing about the solid state batteries? Do they even exist? Look how long Toyota has been talking about Hydrogen. How many Mirais have you seen?

 

Looks like vapor-ware at this point, though Toyota is pretty good at hiding shit, rarely get any spy shots early on before the model is actually released. But why talk about it, when they are very secretive about what features are on vehicles before the official release. I don’t know.

They were hard core on Hydrogen, but the Governments more or less told them to piss off. Far bigger players controlling energy than Toyota wants to do. They lobbied against it, and lost. So much for being one of the worlds top automakers.

Other than some James May videos, zero on the road. Think they only sell them in California??? Yeah? Believe you can’t even purchase one out right, only lease.

 

Meh...you'll start seeing them fairly soon (in 2-3 years is my guess). Plenty of working prototypes on the road today doing testing so the technology is there. I just think they are struggling to figure out how to produce them cheaply at scale.

And any talk of hydrogen should stop immediately. It's a dead end. It was only relevant as a way to retain the investments made in developing combustion engines. But the reality is the math on it doesn't work. Given the exact same size tank of hydrogen, a car could go more than twice as far by using that hydrogen via a hydrogen fuel cell/electric motor instead of a hydrogen combustion engine. So even if we could efficiently produce hydrogen (which we can't) it doesn't make sense to use it in a combustion engine.

 

And how much is that vehicle going to cost? Tacoma's already overpriced without hybrid/electric. How much is the charging system going to cost to get it to charge in 5 minutes? How much will your electric bill be?

 

Google says 11K Mirai have been sold in the US and only in CA. There is a hydrogen fueling station a couple towns over from me. It’s been there for probably 10 years and I’ve never seen anyone use it.

 

Shhh. You aren’t supposed to think about those “minor” details.

 

Was looking at them out if curiosity and remember it was only sold in California. Seems more of a pilot program than anything. Hydrogen can’t win for loosing, EV fan boys and Petrol Heads hate it equally. Lol!

 

That's Toyota screwing you over because Tacoma fanbois are too stupid to realize it. It's a luxury you're afforded when your next closest competitor in the segment is selling less than half as many trucks as you.

Do you have a clue how much a gas pump costs? Because that's the question you're asking. You shouldn't care how much a (insert brand) super charger costs at a charging station. The home chargers are typically fairly cheap ($400ish) for Level2 charging and L1 is literally just a fancy extension cord. You don't charge at breakneck speeds at home....you just plug it in and slow charge it over night and still wake up to a full battery every day.

A lot less than your gasoline bill...which you won't be paying after making the switch. So yeah. Also, you can schedule the car to only charge after hours when the electricity rates are cheaper. It's pretty slick.

 

What are the chances of the utility bill skyrocketing after everyone makes the switch to EV?

Someone is going to have to pay for all the added infrastructure, usually it is the tax payers.

Smart Phones used to be cheap, got everyone hooked and we now can’t live without them, then the subsidies went away.

 

Possibly, and if so, that is a temporary glitch that will be remedied with appropriate taxation infrastructure when it is developed. There are good reasons for EV's, when we have the power source and storage technologies that will make gas powered cars look silly, but I don't expect them to be cheaper to operate. Gas taxes will be replaced with other taxes. The money flow to federal and local governments is so sweet, they are never giving any of that up. How are the various car tracker and pay-per-mile trials going?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electric-car-2023-costs-gas-vehicles/

 

In the year 2060

Fine with me. Better to renewable energy than almost a trillion a year in taxpayer money in subsidies to oil company oligarchs.

 

They have been pushing miles driven tax for years. Super easy to track now-a-days with all vehicles having gps. Toyota got into trouble with privacy concerns tracking customers.

Imagine there will be day that the consumer won’t even be allowed to drive as the EV will self drive and try to do it the most efficient way possible. Sorry kids we can’t take the scenic route because the EV car deems it less efficient and wasteful…

 

We are just pawns in the big scheme of things. Easier to control us if they keep us fighting amongst ourselves.