Need Advice - New Truck Was Painted Prior to Sale

Media sounds like a good threat to a dealership if it gets out that they are selling flooded cars without telling people!

 

Here is some interesting info I found on cars.com about flooded cars

Is a flooded car necessarily junk?TOM: Pretty much, yes. There are some obvious problems, as you can imagine. If water gets access to one of the cylinders — either through the air intake or the exhaust system — that cylinder can fill with water. Then, when the engine is started, that cylinder will hydro-lock (water can't be compressed like air can), and everything connected to the cylinder will break or bend.RAY: But even if the water is pushed out safely before the car is started, that cylinder has already had water sitting in it for a week. Those cylinder walls and rings are probably already rusting, so that engine's going to burn oil like crazy and run unevenly.TOM: Water can also get into the transmission through the transmission fluid dipstick hole. If that happens, you'll be lubricating the transmission with one part transmission fluid and two parts water, or something like that. So kiss the transmission goodbye, too.RAY: Inside the car, lots of manufacturers now put electronic components — like computers — under the seats or under the dashboard. Even if only a modest amount of water was sloshing around the floor of the car, you may need a new computer — or several new computers, depending on your car — which can cost $1,000 each. TOM: And if the water gets a little higher up, it can wreak havoc on electronic seat controls, electric windows, ignition switches and airbags. More and more cars now have seat belt pretensioners, which use pyrotechnic devices housed where the seat belt attaches to the bottom of the door pillar. Pucker up and kiss those goodbye, too.RAY: And then there's the whole issue of mold. When a car is filled with water and then closed up and baked in the sun for a week, you've got mold spore heaven. That's not only a health hazard, but it's also nearly impossible to fix.TOM: So we'd say that if water got any further than the floor of the car, it's junk.



http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story...air&story=carTalk&referer=advice&aff=national

 

Thanks for the link Jotun. I don't know if the vehicle was 'flooded' per se but I do see that water has gotten into certain areas. I've tried to be careful about using the phrase 'water damage' instead of 'flood damage'.

I had another thought...would it help or hurt me to take this car to other dealers and Carmax and disclose everything and try to get a dollar amount for trade in? Would written refusals to take this vehicle help me in that I can show that I bought a new truck that now has no value?

 

It's worth a shot but don't be suprised if that's a dead end. Car dealers are big advertisers. The local media is not likely to bite the hand that feeds them.

 

If it comes to it, I think any legal action you take will have to be directed at Koons. You bought the truck from them, you're contract was with them, they are untimately responsible for the sale to you. It would then be up to them to try to recoup the loss from the other dealer if it was sold to them without them being told of the damage. I'm pretty sure Koons was in on the scam though.

 

I would do that only if you're prepared, in the long run, to hire an attorney and sue the dealership. Always remember the noisy wheel gets the oil. When I was going through a situation with the Toyota dealership,I went physically down every day asking for an update, made sure everything I heard was written down and timestamped with names as well, and called Toyota directly to report updates.

Log everything. Write down every conversation.

Did you try your insurance? Typically they will help you track down the culprit to this type if incident.

Good luck.

 

You may already be aware of this, but I would consider contacting ABC 7 On Your Side http://www.wjla.com/onyourside/. They seem to have pretty good results when dealing with unethical businesses. You can access them via telephone or e-mail from the site, it may be worth a shot if things are not looking favorable.

 

Your best course of action may be to contact the Attorney General's Office. The AG is the consumer's advocate, with unlimited (taxpayer financed) resources, and expertise in situations such as yours.

You have packaged a well documented and convincing case of fraud - whether by intent or negligence - and the AG's office may well pee themselves with the excitement of making headlines by taking on a car dealership that has sold a flood damaged car without disclosure. Car dealerships; everybody distrusts them. Hurricanes; everybody has heard of them. Dealerships and hurricanes and possible fraud connecting the two: front page news. AG's Offices are protectors of the citizenry, but motivated by the press. If they can make headlines and help you out at the same time, you're golden.

The AG has subpoena power and can obtain the records which you have been denied. They also have the means to reach out to the Texas AG and obtain the originating dealership's records. It's possible that yours is not the only hurricane damaged vehicle that has been sold by these dealerships, and the potential of a more widespread fraud should make your situation very appealing to your AG's Office.

The resolution to your problem utilizing the AG's Office will not be as quick as deals or trades you might make on your own, but it is probable that the AG will "arrange" a more beneficial solution in the long term; such as reimbursement for your time and expenses for travel, modifications and restoration.

Not that it should be a concern of yours; you have suffered enough already, but involvement of the AG's Office may well help others who may have purchased damaged vehicles and are unaware.

It is probably not wise for you to contact the press with the intent to embarrass the dealership into making your situation correct. Once you go public with your complaints, the damage has been done and there is no benefit for the dealership to do anything for you. The press should be left as a last resort, to be contacted after all other means of resolution have been exhausted, and then to serve only as a form of vengeance.

Edit: Looking at your AG's website, it appears that you must first file your complaint with the Office of Consumer Affairs, as has been previously mentioned. If the OCA's investigation determines fraud or deception, it is then passed up to the AG's Office. Filtering at its finest. Working for the government would be a great job, if not for those annoying citizens.

 

Thanks guys,

I'm about to leave for work. I just sent this email off to Toyota. Koons called me on Monday and it turned out to be just some hot air.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dear Sir or Madam,

This email is a follow up to a phone call I made on Friday, December 4. I was given the reference number XXXXXX at the end of this call.

Debra Latiolais at Koons Tysons Toyota did call me on Monday morning as Toyota Motor Sales required. She stated that she would provide me pricing on a replacement Tacoma by the end of that same day. She also stated that this issue was a top priority both for her and her general manager.

I was not contacted by the end of the day on Monday 12/7 and I was not contacted on Tuesday 12/8. This is unfortunately yet another instance where Koons Tysons Toyota has displayed intent with no action and it is the same type of response that drove me to contact your offices on December 4. I am amazed at the speed they will act to sell a vehicle, but it seems anything else is not a 'top priority' as they claim.

Any assistance you can provide me in obtaining a response from this dealership would be greatly appreciated.

My sincerest thanks,

 

Again, well written letter. Who at Toyota are you sending the letter to? Hopefully not info@toyota.com or some other generic email address. I assume you have the name of a manager or someone who make things happen?

 

Thanks Veccster,

I haven't gotten the contact info for the person who'll be handling my case yet. I don't think they've gotten my packet yet - the USPS delivery confirmation hasn't gone through yet. The reference number is the only thing I've gotten so far, but I'm hopeful that will change.

I'll follow up with a call to them if I haven't heard anything by tomorrow morning. I have to remember they're on a 3hr time lag being on the west coast.

 

Subscribed to the thread.

Very interested in the outcome.

 

Subscribed.

I used to get my old 1st gen Tacoma serviced at Koons when I lived up there. I HATED dealing with them, they always gave me a hard time. They even refused to do an axel seal TSB and blamed my aftermarket equipment. I ended up getting it done at Ourisman, no questiosn asked.

 

Interesting responses concerning Koons. I purchased my Tacoma from Koons of Annapolis with no issues and was satisified with the sales staff and back office staff. However I have not had it in to the dealership for service. Some of the comments are scaring me.

The sales man called me after receiving my information from a family member. I felt I was being jerked around by Toyota of Bowie so i went to Koons.

My Tacoma came into the dealership at 4:00 in the afternoon and I was driving it home at 09:00.

 

My sales experience went quickly too. I think I was in at 7 or 8PM and I was out at 10PM. Like I said to Toyota, they'll sell with the quickness but they don't seem to care much about things on the back end.

 

Ok...interesting turn of events today. Overall, very good news.

Apparently, Koons Tysons Toyota has been telling the truth the whole time about not knowing about these damages.

I actually talked to the person who handled the transfer at Allen Toyota and he said that he did not disclose the damages to the roof when it was transferred because the damage amount did not exceed 6% of the MSRP. He also said that they had been having a hard time selling trucks at that dealership and he arranged for it to be transferred out of the region. (http://www.mmvc.state.ms.us/mmvc/MotorVeh.nsf/webpages/regulations_one?OpenDocument)

This is somewhat complicated because the requirement is 3% in Virginia.

This person was sympathetic and said he would have no problem taking back the truck if I had purchased it from his dealership. He offered to call Koons Tysons Toyota tomorrow to see if something could be worked out. I explained that Koons would treat my truck as a trade-in and I would take a huge hit in depreciation. I asked him to consider contributing an amount to the trade-in value so that I net a refund of the purchase price.

So now I also do feel guilty for being mistrusting in my communications with Koons Tysons Toyota. I guess for the Customer Relations Manager its something that comes with the job but I can imagine that it is frustrating to tell someone the truth and to have them be skeptical about it.

I'm going to call Debra Latiolais tomorrow morning to apologize for some previous comments I made, and to let her know that Allen Toyota would be calling her. I also want to see if she has the numbers for what they will pay to take the truck back and how much they will sell the 4x4 Sport for.

I'm hopeful that we can all start on a clean slate and that Allen Toyota and/or Toyota Motor Sales will work with Koons to net me a refund so I can get myself into a new Tacoma ASAP.

Right now I can't drive my truck since every mile would depreciate the value. I don't much want to anyway. Luckily, I have not sold the 350Z yet and I'll be ok as long as the snow holds off. No offense to those with stock trucks but I got used to the stiffness of the Toytec coil overs and the improved brake feel of the Goodridge SS lines & HPS pads that the stock truck just feels like a pile of mashed potatoes.

 

I personally wouldn't be as quick to believe that Koons didn't know about the damage just because Allen Toyota told you so.

Also, they say that the damage was less than 6%. However, they only report the cost of repairing the roof. Who paid to clean the interior. Who paid to replace the parts on the seat that are easily visible (i.e. nuts holding the seat to the floor, the adjuster bar that goes across the front of the seat, etc.).

Anyway, I hope that you get it all straightened out by the new year!

Cheers.

 

Hmm...Allen Toyota's explanantion makes sense and is in line with their state's disclosure requirements. Why would Allen Toyota tell me they didn't tell Koons about this if in fact they did? In my mind, if they did tell Koons about this they would be better off telling me that than saying they kept that information to themselves.

I emailed Allen Toyota pictures of the seat frame this evening. They said there was a dent to the roof but the rear glass was not broken and as far as they know no water entered the cab because of the damage. I explained that I brought the truck in to Ourisman Fairfax Toyota because of the leak in the headliner and that the leak could have been an ongoing problem from the time repairs were completed until I noticed it. Do you think the rust under the seat could have been caused by the headliner leak?

 

it looks like there is more damage than just water. Ive left the windows open on my truck and it poured and i dont have any rust. IMO it looks like there could be salt water damage judging by how much rust is there...

 

Well, I have never looked under my seats but I assume they will not look like yours do. The truck is not an airtight compartment and I guess the salt air could have a different effect on the interior metals. Any input from down-south or coastal members?

I would continue to ask about the rust and what caused it. Seems too ironic if you ask me. Maybe its time for a second opinion from a professional.

Could a rusted seat covered under factory warranty?



I guess one way to stay under 6% repair cost is to not repair everything that should be repaired. And 6% is only $1,800. I don't know about you but I have had fender benders cost my insurance company more than that.