Need Help!!! Better for adding aftermarket locking diffs - TRD Sport or Off-Road?

Sub'd....

I wouldn't recommend an Arb locker in the rear of a dd, anytime u get a Lil heavy foot and get slip, it causes friction while its unlocked. The front however is ideal

 

If you had lockers before you will quickly realize ATRAC and the rest of Toyotas sorry attempt at traction control , absolutely fails in snow.
Mechanical LSD is Hino 8 clutchpack that Toyota stopped installing after 2008 once they realized China can make ATRAC components for pennies.
Limited slipp is still made and installed in Toyota trucks outside US.
However. Not sure what differential you used in the rear to install ARB but if you get 4.10 2gen you should most likely be able to swap rear diffs.

 

Pardon my confusion. When I said FULLTIME, I meant.... ARB is a FULL LOCKER. The wheels are FULLY LOCKED when engaged.

When an ARB is NOT engaged...it's an OPEN DIFF. It does nothing for you when its not engaged.

Mechanical LSD is NOT an OPEN diff. It is always functioning. LSD is designed to slip during situations of daily driving.

ARB locker will NOT slip. Wheels are fully locked together. And again...same reason why you should not use 4WD (on our trucks) for daily driving is the same reason you DO NOT engage an ARB for daily driving. If you do...you WILL break something.

 

Wait I'm confused. I had a arb in the rear of my v8 converted wrangler that I dd everywhere and never had an issue.

 

Selectable lockers such as ARB are ideal for a daily driver. Because you can turn them of and have differential action just like off the factory lot.

 

Thanks for clarifying. Yes it is bad/stupid to drive on road with an ARB locked/engaged.

I still don't see the benefits of LSD on road during daily driving conditions (Non extreme or loss of traction conditions)

 

Really winter & rain times.
Its the same as AWD vs 4x4. Especially in winter when you driving on back roads you end up with patches of snow and patches of dry road. with open diff patches of snow become little too annoying. Especially if you have to stop at the light with some snow ice on the road in that particular spot. So LSD constantly works constantly delivers powers to both wheels but does not have them locked. For daily driver its just easier than flipping switch back and forth. I like it. After 60 000 miles running that Hino I wish somebody was making one for all the cars. It had been working great for me.
Now if it is bad snowstorm I like my LC with front/rear lockers. Just because I can lock all 4 wheels and have that rolling over 5 foot of snow like nothing.
Daily driving I think that mechanical LSD was best thing ever especially its not like Truetrac and still works with one wheel in the air.

 

That's a little steep, but not as far out of the ballpark as folks seem to think.

ECGS will sell you assembled thirds for roughly $1600 each front and rear including gears ARB diffs - which is a VERY competitive price.

To that you still need to add:

Core shipping (these things are heavy) at least 100
ARB HO compressor 275
Install compressor, air lines, wiring - (at least) 2 hrs shop labor
Remove & install rear third - 2hrs shop labor
Remove & install front third - 4hrs shop labor

Keeping in mind shop labor runs at least 100 an hour in most major urban areas any more (145 an hour at my Toyota dealer) a specialty shop ought to get the whole thing done and out the door for 4400??

But if they're installing the gears at standard shop labor rates, it could easily climb higher.

 

LSD is for minor traction loss. It doesn't take much (on an open diff) for one wheel to start slipping. The mechanical LSD can help prevent that by utilizing clutch paks to help lock up the wheel to keep it turning. However, once it reaches beyond a certain torque limit, the clutch paks will release/slip (for a lack of a better way to explain it).

LSD is great in snowy conditions.

LSD is a traction concept that you see on almost all new cars. The Auto LSD utilizes the brakes to prevent wheel spin. If the vehicle applies the brakes to the slipping wheel (effectively causing it to stop slipping) - Again - the path of least resistance - the power will go to the opposite wheel.

If the concept of LSD didn't work (as you envision it) - the car manufacturers wouldn't be using it. It's a pretty significant concept and is closely related (the same concept) to what manufacturers call 'traction control' that you see on almost all new vehicles. It's a safety device also. Helps keep the vehicle 'in control' in certain conditions. But that's a whole different thread....

 

Alright, I can handle those explanations. I like 4x4 (in the conditions you present) and plan to add an ARB locker to my truck for anything more extreme.

I understand how Mech. LSD and Auto. LSD work and their benefits and downfalls in loss of traction and extreme conditions. I still don't see the benefits of LSD on road during daily driving conditions (My definition of Daily Driving - Non extreme or loss of traction conditions) as you suggested it was.

I guess it really is a preference thing. I rode up to Shoecreek in moderate snow/ice conditions and Spotty roads. He has a Sport with LSD and the other Bells and I have a SR5 Open diffs with no Bells or Whistles. Neither of us had problems running 55+ down the roads.

 

OK....obviously, you weren't on terrain that was poor enough for the regular SR5 to have any issues. How is that a comparison?

Take the SR5 somewhere where IT WILL have issues. Then...take the Sport and try the same conditions.

 

Back on Topic. Long discussion short the OP wants Lockers in the end. OP I would say you might benefit from matching lockers ARB front and rear, rather than having the Toyota Locker in the rear and ARB up front. An SR5 would be a good platform to readily do both ARB lockers at the same time. The other 2 versions would be a little more in labor to remove the LSD or Toyota Locker.

We were discussing Daily Driving conditions, not extreme conditions, to begin with. The conditions I used for example would be normal in the winter in a majority of states. (My definition of Daily Driving - Non extreme or loss of traction conditions, everyday back and forth to work/play)

 

I think definition of normal DD driving depends on where you live.
Where I live normal DD in winter consists of driving on 30% snow covered road. So 70% of road will be dry nice asphalt then 30% are patches of snow Ice. This is also driving in mountains with road going up and down which makes any ice or snow harder to deal with.
Open Diff is completely doable so no need for locker or LSD most of the time. But its nice future because with LSD you dont have to turn anything on and off. Its there and it does excellent job. So for DD in my neck of woods its very nice future to have and greatly appreciated every winter.
Before I installed lockright in my 1gen truck I had to switch to 4x4 and out multiple times going to work. It was not hard but it was just annoying.

 

ARB lockers are EXPENSIVE because (and someone may have already mentioned it) it involves carrier change, ring & pinion setup, air pump, air tank, air lines, etc. $$$. It's a serious job and not something you want to hack together. It could theoretically cost $1000+ for one diff. Ten years ago when I had my Jeep axles done....it cost $1200 PER DIFF.


For what the Op mentions.....More beneficial to get a TRD Sport (with mechanical LSD) to start with. Then - if he needs it, have an ARB installed in the FRONT. Then.....if that isn't enough... he can have the LSD removed and install an ARB in the rear.

 

OP is money a factor in your build? Do you want the benefits of the other traction aids available in the Sport or Off-Road? Or in that case the other options available with the Sport or Off-Road?

 

Well u are lucky'er than me then, i had a rear Arb in my v8 converted cj5 and because i was young and had a lead foot, all the one tire fires i did caused it to get hot and wear down.... Thats all i was saying

 

Ha ha did you try adding Oil to differential ?

 

So much derp in this thread :|

 

Yeah money is definitely a factor... which I why I mentioned that the truck would likely have a bunch of miles on it. I had originally set my sights on the '05-08 because it seems as if the jump to '09 carries with it a much bigger price tag. I guess with that in mind though, it seems as if an '05 sport with ARB lockers front + rear would probably end up costing me as much as a stock '09 off-road with all the factory traction control options. I guess considering that, what would be going through your mind if it was you making the purchase?