Need help reading these plugs !!

The jist is dealer put in wrong plugs, engine one leg out the door, now fighting to get it fixed. Anyhow through a miracle I was able to get a hold of the bad plugs the dealer initially put in they stated TOYOTA told them the plug mistake wouldnt have caused the damage of a bad piston ring.

Here they are, I've never seen plugs look like this. Plugs were on for 10k miles/ 9 months. The insulators are half cooked/half clean on almost all of them and under 4 out of the 6 plugs the bottom of the electrode tip is shiny/glazed right above the firing end.

 

Iridium plugs, should use copper in the 4.0 unless it has the supercharger.
Looks like the heat range might have been incorrect, but unless the heat range caused engine knock AND unless the knock sensor didn't compensate AND unless you ignored the knock and continued to load the engine when it was knocking, no, those plugs would not have caused a broken ring. All of the "parts" are there, nothing has broken off and fallen into the cylinder.

 

The truck is supercharged. The wrong plugs put in are a heat range 6 in a .044 gap. The ones for the supercharger are supposed to be heat range 7 in a .032 gap.

Plugs were used for 10k miles across 9 months in the last illinois winter where temps hit -45f for several days at a time

 

Okay, so iridium is the correct plug type, they got that right.
But the heat range being off should not have caused damage unless like I said it caused knock and the knock was ignored.

 

I had oil pushing out of the supercharger lid, and than oil pushing out of where the tb meets the supercharger. All this after the spark plug change. Toyota says its normal. In my opinion not normal for all this oil to push through in 5k miles. It's a matter of when I was pushing for further inspection it was all deemed "normal" , as soon as my warranty was up than its engine damage. You say the plugs didnt cause the damage, but can you say that it didnt accelerate the outcome ?

 

You stated that there was an issue with one of the rings. Has the engine been torn down to find this damage? A Compression Test? Is the issue with the Oil Control Rings or one of the Compression Rings? Or is this just a guess based on the oil? There are too many questions to give a good answer.

That being said I would have to agree with Rich. Unless you had some serious knocking your damage is not from the plugs. The plugs they used are only one step hotter than the desired 7 range. So we are talking about a 70C to 100C degree difference. If it were to have been causing damage You would have heard a severe pre-ignition and detonation ( Knocking ). If you didn't have knocking it wasn't the plugs. They do not look severely overheated to me. The electrodes look too good to have been severely overheating.

From the NGK Site:

The most serious result of selecting a heat range that is too hot is overheating. Overheating will cause the electrodes to wear quickly and can lead to pre-ignition. Pre-ignition occurs when the air-fuel mixture is ignited by a hot object/area in the combustion chamber before the timed spark event occurs. When the spark plug firing end (tip) temperature exceeds 800°C, pre-ignition originating from the overheated insulator ceramic can occur. Pre-ignition will dramatically raise the cylinder temperature and pressure and can cause serious and expensive engine damage. When inspecting a spark plug that has experienced overheating or pre-ignition, blistering on the ceramic insulator and/or melted electrodes can sometimes be found.

As a general guideline, among identical spark plug types, the difference in tip temperature from one heat range to the next is approximately 70°C to 100°C.

 

A compression test & Leakdown test were done. Not only that but within 400 miles of driving I got oil seeping out of the trd supercharger lid all the way to staining and seeping out of the throttle body and also where the intake pipe meets the box. You say the plug may not be the deciding factor in this BUT it did accelerate any issue or put it over the threshold. We did have a -45F winter in chicago and i'm sure running a hotter plug with those cold temps threw things off. Any ignition/spark plug change to an N/A powered vehicle may not make a deciding case but when it comes to forced injection there is alot more sensitivity. Hence why TRD says to use the Denso. The real issue here is that the vehicle was brought in 3 times for the oil seeping/leak prior to my extended warranty expiring. I had to request them to check the plugs, I had to request them to do a compression test. It is not my job to tell the dealer how to diagnose the issues with my car. AFTER my warranty was expired than suddenly I have engine damage. It is one of those issues where if it was me that theoretically put in bad plugs and toyota found out I had engine damage than I wouldn't have it covered under warranty. But if the dealer does it than it wasn't the cause. So its a case of damned if I do and damned if i dont.

 

I would also like toi echo DD's comments. I would also continue with the fact being that it was an issue Before the warranty ended. Bump the spark plugs as I do not think that is what caused the " Broken Ring ".

Esp since you did not say what the results of the Compression or Leakdown tests were. Do you know what the results showed?

 

compression was 175 cylinders 1-6 , 135 on 6. Spoke to Gadget at URD ( great guy ) told me 6th cylinder is always the first to go. The work order to do the compression test when the new plugs came in was created when I had warranty. The plugs came in after my warranty was up and hence when they did the compression test...and than closed the work order...after my warranty. They did a leakdown after the compression test but never gave me the results of that so i'm guessing it was pretty bad. So far i'm still in communication with the dealer and things are moving in a progressive manner, so atleast i'm glad about that.

 

i thought even with the super it ran copper cores

 

The temp never hit -45 only with wind chill. Lets be realistic.

Coldest days ever in chicago, dated dec 2013
Date Temperature
Jan. 20, 1985 27 below zero
Jan 10, 1982 26 below zero
Jan. 16, 1982 25 below zero

I am from the crap state of IL, northwest suburb. Hit -16 this past winter.

I would not trust any results from a dealer on a leak down/compression test. If you do not have one go rent it and get the facts or pop the money and pay someone else for valid proof.

I am guessing unless there is a audible issue/knock they are not going to do anything.

Best of luck.

 

+1

-45 F, never.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/06/chicago-record-low-temperature_n_4548999.html

To make matters worse, the wind chill at O'Hare dropped as low as 42 degrees below zero and a wind chill warning remains in effect for the Chicago area through noon Tuesday.

my bad...I was 3 degrees off with windchill.

If they are stubborn about it than I will have the truck towed directly from that toyota dealership to another one that will have nothing to lose or gain from the test and have them do the compression/leakdown without having the vehicle being driven (adding miles). At that point if there is a discrepency i'll be getting a lawyer, as I would love to hear the tale of how the compression numbers changed when the mileage didnt.

 

Not sure about the plugs but the worst we had here in Milwaukee last winter going in to work was -14. If anything I would think a hott plug would have less negative effects in a colder ambient temp than in a 100 degree everyday all day temp setting.

 

^ Yea cd, thats why I think my oil didnt start blasting through the intake until it warmed up and the engine really started to cook. I dont think the heat range would be affected by the cold temps as much as the huge gap change. .032 vs .044 is HUGE in a FI application

 

Do they know what the problem s with the ring(S)? Might want to bore scope the top of the piston and see what it looks like. that should tell the tale of hoe combustion was occuring, what type of fuel atomization was taking place and if it was a clean or dirty burn.
Was there any smoke out the pipe? Fuel, oil or incomplete burn will cause smoke.

 

Nice big puff of blue smoke on startup. The quote to fix it was so damn big it was enough for a new engine. So they covered themselves there

 

Wind chill isn't relevant to a truck.

 

no, but it affected how fast my ass got home

 

ringland on 6 is toast. There are a couple 1" diameter glaze spots on the cylinder wall from the part of ringland that was pushing against it. They felt smooth to the touch though. Dealer says if its smooth its fine just to drop in a new piston. Can anyone verify that for me ?