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Need quick input. Considering 2016-2017 model purchase

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by BamaToy1997, Nov 14, 2017.

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Should I go 3rd gen or stay looking at 3nd gen?

  1. Get the 3rd gen!

    12 vote(s)
    32.4%
  2. Stick with 2nd gen!

    25 vote(s)
    67.6%
  1. Nov 14, 2017 at 9:27 AM
    #1
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 [OP] ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Multi-point tow hooks, new bored 2.7L engine, custom paint. 3 inch adjustable Fabtech front coils, 2.5 inch rear AAL. Front Aussie locker. LED bed lights. Full LED conversion interior and exterior. Relentless Fabrication front and rear bumpers. 4X4innovation sliders. BAMF bed rack. CVT rooftop tent.
    I posted this in the 3rd gen forum and it was suggested I repost here as well for more input...

    So I have a situation coming up and am looking at having to buy a new truck ASAP. I have been staying away from the 3rd gen because for one, I wasn't happy with the engine or look, and second, looking at an offroad bumper seems to be a difficult job for them. Can anyone pop in who actually owns or has owned a 3rd gen, and give me your pros and cons over the 2nd gen? I already know the common issues with the 2nd gen, so don't need that info. I just want a comparison. Should I go ahead and get over my dislikes and get a 3rd gen?

    Thanks!

    Poll added
     
  2. Nov 14, 2017 at 9:33 AM
    #2
    replica9000

    replica9000 Mildly retarded...

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  3. Nov 14, 2017 at 10:34 AM
    #3
    MikeyMcFly

    MikeyMcFly Well-Known Member

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    Painfully stock.
    I've had both (a 2013 OR AC 5AT and a 2016 OR DCSB 6MT).

    The transmission woes are well documented, as such I went 6MT. For the record I disliked the 5AT in my 2nd gen and actually had it replaced under warranty, which didn't solve the programming issue. It would go into and out of TC lockup at the blink of an eye and would constantly do it at 40 MPH.

    The Bad :

    - 2nd Gen Owners / 3rd Gen Forum - It's a dumpster fire and dampens my enthusiasm for going to this forum outside of the regional areas. The trolling is strong.
    - Powertrain. This is well documented. For me, it's not necessarily the lack of power, it's the power delivery. It's not linear and sometimes it feeds like it's falling on its face, even though it may not actually be on the speedometer. It just doesn't have that urgency feeling, or there's a delay in it. However, for your average daily driving, this is a moot point, because you're not going to be likely driving it like a race car.
    - Rear Differential. I have the whine if I hold my speed at exactly the right speed. Should it be there, probably not. I figure that if there are long term issues, Toyota should have them resolved before the 60K warranty is up.
    - Headlights. They just aren't particularly bright. The cutoff is a bit low (though that should be able to be adjusted) and I found the later 2G headlights to be surprisingly bright in stock form.
    - Interior Plastics. They show dirt / fingerprints more than the 2G.
    - The A-pillar wind noise

    The Good
    - The interior. If you go with the TRD models, especially the premium and tech like mine, you've got the center display that has a bunch of good information. I like the MPG readout with the digital speed as a default, with the ability to see other items as desired. I like the design of the gauges and the blue illumination.
    - The HU. It's better than the 2G head unit in stock form. A lot of people don't care for the navigation, but I like the ability to see the map on the dash when I'm driving to reroute myself if I'm in an area that's relatively familiar, but maybe not somewhere I'm at daily. I also like the ability to use Siri and whatnot and think it's fundamentally a better unit than the stock 2G system.
    - Seat Heaters. Brilliant
    - Sunroof. Likewise brilliant, the biggest reason I selected the configuration I did over waiting for the Pro.
    - Cabin noise. It truly feels quieter inside the truck and more refined than the 2G.
    - Familiarity - It still feels like a Tacoma.

    This truck with the 4.0L would be perfect. However, even with the 3.5 I don't find myself missing the 2013 because it was a better truck stock. I miss the 2013 because it was modded EXACTLY how I wanted it and I loved it EXACTLY as it was and with a baby I can't justify spending the $$$ to make the new one look like the old one.
     
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  4. Nov 14, 2017 at 11:09 AM
    #4
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 [OP] ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Really good information, @MikeyMcFly ! I am coming from a 1st gen 2.7L 4 cyl manual, and looking into the 4.0 auto or 3.5 auto, so either way I think I will notice a huge difference! haha. Just trying to weigh my numbers. Here is the situation as of now:

    2013 TRD Sport for $26k with 60k miles. Monthly payments of $434
    2016 TRD Off-Road for $32k with less than 10k miles. Monthly payment of $437

    The 2016 I get a HUGE break in the interest rate because it is less than 2 years old, and less than 30k miles. So looking at essentially the same payment, do I want a 2nd gen with 60 miles, or a 3rd gen with factory warranty still, with 10k miles? That is where I am at. I haven't locked into just those two trucks, but they are currently the two top runners.
     
  5. Nov 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM
    #5
    MikeyMcFly

    MikeyMcFly Well-Known Member

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    Painfully stock.
    Does the 32k include TTL?

    I paid 34.9 + TTL for my truck new with the P&T in July of 2016.

    The residual value of the 2016 would help long term but I don't see how the rates affect your payment that much unless you're extending out the term more for the 16 than the 13.
     
  6. Nov 14, 2017 at 11:25 AM
    #6
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 [OP] ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Multi-point tow hooks, new bored 2.7L engine, custom paint. 3 inch adjustable Fabtech front coils, 2.5 inch rear AAL. Front Aussie locker. LED bed lights. Full LED conversion interior and exterior. Relentless Fabrication front and rear bumpers. 4X4innovation sliders. BAMF bed rack. CVT rooftop tent.
    Both those prices include everything. TTL and down payment. Those prices reflect actual loan amount. The reason there is such a big difference is the banks. I have fair, but not great credit. It puts me into a really odd place with banks. On a used truck the best rate I could get was about 7% from one bank. Another bank was willing to give me 4.6% if I bought the 2016.
     
  7. Nov 14, 2017 at 11:42 AM
    #7
    Larueminati

    Larueminati Well-Known Member

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    Ouch, try a credit union. They're all in the 2-3% range up here, that 2013 would be considered "new".
     
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  8. Nov 14, 2017 at 11:44 AM
    #8
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 [OP] ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    I use credit unions as well. They classify new only as 2 years old or older with less than 30k miles. Anything older or with more miles is listed as used.
     
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  9. Nov 14, 2017 at 12:18 PM
    #9
    MikeyMcFly

    MikeyMcFly Well-Known Member

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    Painfully stock.
    I don't know about near you but I always use AAA as a benchmark for rates when I go look. I know your credit isn't perfect but it's worth looking at.

    Would the rate be better if you went new? 60k isn't a ton of miles but for a small payment difference all things being equal getting 50k less miles is nice.

    I'd just recommend giving the 2016 a good long test drive to make sure you like it. The 2013 is a known quantity to you.
     
  10. Nov 14, 2017 at 12:22 PM
    #10
    PROseur

    PROseur Well-Known Member

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    I have a 2.7L gen 1 and 3.5L Pro gen 3

    Get the gen3

    My Pro feels like a Pagani Zonda compared to my gen 1 poverty spec taliban special


    The 4.0 gen 2 is great but I think gen 2 is ugly
     
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  11. Nov 14, 2017 at 1:25 PM
    #11
    nd4spdbh

    nd4spdbh Well-Known Member

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    I think alot of what you hear negative about the 6 speed auto trans in the 3rd gens is the hunting between 4th 5th and 6th. What people dont realize is that 6th is a double OD. 4th and 5th are nearly identical to the 2nd gens 4th and 5th gears as far as RPMs vs speed goes. So yeah there is going to be some hunting with that double OD, but really, its not that big of a deal, pop it over to S mode and put it in 5th and you will stop the hunting / make the hunting just like the 2nd gens. Also there is the shift sense pro for 250ish that "solves" this issue.

    I have done MANY miles in my 2nd gen and quite a few in my Pop's 3rd. Both of them are great trucks, the 3rd gen i use the auto's stick shift just as much as i do in my 2nd. I constantly pop my 5 speed auto into 4th (1:1) before hitting a hill (even more so with cruise control on) as i know it will downshift and this just stops any hunting. Same thing applies for the 3rd gen. S mode, tap down one to 4th (1:1). I think the average population just assumes an auto trans knows exactly what you want it to do all the time... no, they are programmed to provide max MPG's, nothing more. This is why they have the ability to select gears, so you can keep it in a gear you want... JUST LIKE A MANUAL (sans down shifting to a lower gear but thats a different story). What im trying to say is that the people that complain about hunting etc are just lazy and dont want to touch the shifter for anything other than putting it in park or reverse.

    The 3.5L is down on low end power and torque compared to the 2nd gen's 4.0L for sure.... its quite surprising but my 2013 TRD OR 4x4 pulls multiple car lengths 0-45 on my buddies 3rd gen TRD OR 4x4... but at ~ 60 this stops, and at 80 hes caught up and passing me. Its just how the power is delivered.

    Overall the 3rd gen is a much nicer truck to drive, much quieter interior and more goodies which can be nice. I honestly wish my 2nd gen was as quiet as the 3rd.

    Would I trade my 2nd gen for a 3rd. NOPE not one bit, but I already have it an its already paid off. If someone held a gun at my head, told me i had to get rid of the truck for a 3rd gen (IE Totaled truck in a crash) , would i have an issue? Nope id happily rock a 3rd gen.


    For the 2016, just make sure that the CPS recall has been done (or not affected your truck), That the transmission reprogramming has been flashed, and that the rear diff isnt weeping and you will be good. Either way you go they will be a solid truck.
     
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  12. Nov 14, 2017 at 6:11 PM
    #12
    MikeyMcFly

    MikeyMcFly Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see transmission temperatures as you manipulate the gears in the automatic.

    My 2G would run significantly hotter when I'd take it out of overdrive and the TC unlocked running it in 4 (which was supposed to have the capability to lock up). I always thought the truck behaved better in 4 around time than D, but I never liked the increase in transmission temperatures.
     
  13. Nov 14, 2017 at 8:03 PM
    #13
    nd4spdbh

    nd4spdbh Well-Known Member

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    FYI, in the 2nd gen 5spd auto it will go into TC lockup in 4th and 5th without issue so long as speed is greater than 32mph. Trans temps would be no different in 4th locked vs 5th locked..... they would actually be less due to increased rpms and fluid flow. With the TC unlocked in 4th technically you would have less temps than in 5th due to the simple fact you have better mechanical advantage and there isnt as much "slipping" in 4th compared to 5th at the same speed in an unlocked state. Any time i ever watched trans temps under load (going up a hill with a trailer for example) they would be higher in a taller gear if unlocked, I could downshift to say 2nd or 3rd unlocked and temps will cool off simply because you are past stall rpm and the torque converter isnt "slipping" much at all.

    You are right however that TC fluid output temps do jump quick when unlocked, pan temps rise much slower but do rise when unlocked vs not. This is why the manual states to leave it in 4th when toying, not to save wear on the clutchpacks from the gear hunting, as realistically those will last millions of shifts, but because when it does shift it has to unlock the torque converter which makes trans temps rise, and if it is constantly hunting it will never get into a lockup state.

    Id imagine the 3rd gens 6spd auto functions similar, lockup occuring in 4th 5th and 6th above ~ 30mph, though i have not read the FSM to know that for sure.
     
  14. Nov 14, 2017 at 9:58 PM
    #14
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 [OP] ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Where do you get that kind of idea from? In the torque converter there will be the same rate of "slippage" regardless of if it were in 4th or 5th gear. 200RPM of slipping is 200RPM of slipping. (Taking into account we are talking factory trans and TC versus performance converters) Slippage is based on factors such as torque converter slip speed allowance, as well as ECU control of TCC pressure (PWM solenoid) and TC lockup percentages. These have dozens of variables depending on engine load, vehicle speed, etc. So there is no specifics of "less slippage in 4th vs 5th at speed XX MPH." Because at that speed, the loads could be different.
     
  15. Nov 14, 2017 at 10:00 PM
    #15
    Bebop

    Bebop Old fashion cowboy

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    I just saw a 3rd gen today. Almost had a heart attack at the price tag

    IMG_0952.jpg
     
  16. Nov 14, 2017 at 10:09 PM
    #16
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 [OP] ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Especially with the "$16,000" in dealership custom add-ons!
     
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  17. Nov 14, 2017 at 11:12 PM
    #17
    lynlan1819

    lynlan1819 Well-Known Member

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    Damn,Tacomas are not worth more than $40,000 for any type in my opinion,way too many problems and cheap parts.
     
  18. Nov 14, 2017 at 11:27 PM
    #18
    jca

    jca Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I saw one of these at my local dealership. That "appearance package" markup is ridiculous!
     
  19. Nov 15, 2017 at 5:43 AM
    #19
    davidsp101

    davidsp101 Well-Known Member

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    He's spot on. I have a 2017 TRD Off Road 4x4 Auto. I love nearly everything about the truck when it is parked. However, the driving experience is so bad that I'm actually considering trading it on a 2015 TRD Off Road with low miles. Just like he said above, it's not necessarily the lack of power because the truck will get up and go if you punch it. It's the day to day driving around the city that drives me nuts and while I know Toyota took a while to fix some of the issues on the second gen, I just don't see them radically altering the transmission for upwards of 400,000 trucks. Not to mention the fact that both transmission updates for me have reverted back based on the learning transmission.
     
  20. Nov 15, 2017 at 5:46 AM
    #20
    davidsp101

    davidsp101 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the 5 and 6 as double overdrives. I have the shiftsense pro and if you have a third gen, this is $250 well spent as the truck loves to jump into 4th wayyy too early without it. For me it's the insanely hard downshifts and the delay in response when you actually hit the gas pedal vs when the truck responds.
     
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