New York is first, who is next???

oh, ...ok, ...well i was going to give you the "2nd Amendment" argument... ...and i desire AR-15s and 30rd "standard capacity" magazines, ...and thus i have them...

 

yep, that's a good one!

 

When was the last time you changed your position on some deeply held emotional issue because of something someone wrote on the 'net? Thought so.

With that thought in mind - I wonder if we can explore areas where TW members DO agree - rather than centering on points of disagreement and winning by shouting the other guy down, or slaying him with witty repartee.

So:
The United States is a nation of rights and responsibilities. We deeply cherish all our rights and civil liberties, and are reluctant to let any of them go.

Under some circumstances, we accept some limitations to those rights, as part of living together in a society and community with others. "You can't yell fire in a crowded theater." Or "My right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins."

We have been witness to multiple truly, deeply, awful, evil events recently. Where one unbalanced and evil individual maliciously hurt as many people as possible, in a calculated way so as to gain as much notoriety as possible.

If you give a man any one of: a box knife, a baseball bat, a .357 revolver, a 30 round AR 15, an M16, or a surface-to-air missile, he can do harm to others if he desires. But each one can do more harm faster than the one before it. i.e I can kill people with a baseball bat, but I can kill more people faster with an M16. The fact that you can pencil out some specific circumstances where the box cutter is more useful/harmful than the RPG, doesn't change the overall truth of the statement.

Historically, we institutionalized, marginalized, and isolated the mentally ill. For reasons of cost, (lack of) effectiveness of care, and because of abuses that occurred in that system of institutionalization, we no longer do that. The right of basic freedom of movement and association belongs to all. We deprive people of that right only when they have violated the law with due process under the law.

A gun is not evil. A gun is a tool. Evil is a concept that applies only to acts performed by humans.

While reasonable minds may differ on how this might be accomplished, and at what cost, it is desirable that the number of homicides in general, and firearms homicides in particular, and especially high-impact multiple victim homicides, be decreased.

As always - think about it. Ponder it over. And writing to your congressmen to let him know your well reasoned and deeply held beliefs will do more to see them realized/accomodated than any amount of shouting on the 'net.

 

In 2011 all rifles, not just the evil assault weapons but ALL rifles combined killed 5 people in New York. 28 were beaten to death and 161 were stabbed. So yeah good job on the AW ban.

 

Source?

 

Those that argue for gun control should replace 'assault weapon' with the word 'alcohol' and see if their statement has the same meaning. Most of the time there is little difference. You can use the same arguments against alcohol consumption except the casualties are many times greater than guns. It is involved in more drunk driving deaths of children and adults than gun could ever even think of. That doesn't even include the social and emotion issues it does to families It's a double standard IMO. I fire my AR15 with a 30 round clip because I enjoy it. If I were to abuse it someone might be hurt. How is that so different from alcohol use and abuse?

Prohibition went away because it was too hard to enforce, a black market existed and was thriving, and powerful people liked to drink. We need powerful people that like to shoot ALL types of guns, including 30 rounds in a short time and maybe the gun laws won't change.

I'm not saying bring prohibition back. I don't think they should. I just see a double standard here.

 

FBI crime stats via NY Daily News

 

Thanks. New York City or State?

 

After reading through 6 pages of this, I see Oz didn't live up to his New Years resolution.

 

State

 

Sorry, stats were from New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services

 

In my eyes there are simply not enough deaths by firearms to be of any concern to anyone.

It would take some research but If you took all the things that kills us that are preventable, firearms would probably rank about as high deaths from accidental ingestion of peanut butter by persons with a peanut allergy.

Just saying..................

 

Quick ban peanut butter!

 

hmm... i do believe you are correct... or could be they are just on a delayed calendar up there in canadia

 

He is on an island up there. Maybe they are still in the 90's grunge faze?

 

I do believe in the background checks but also have a few other ideas.

1. A psych test because most of the people involved in these "mass" shootings obviously were off the wire.
2. This would be hard to do but change how gun shows work. Set them in predetermined locations and only at capable locations. So flea market gun shows ill-leagal.
3. To go with the psych test and background check comprise a "passport" of sorts that yearly needs re-evaluated. The when you go to a re-organized gun show the seller can then sell to you if you have the proper credentials.

Just my 2 cents..........let the flame bashing begin

 

In 2005, tobacco smoking and high blood pressure were responsible for an estimated 467,000 (95% confidence interval [CI] 436,000–500,000) and 395,000 (372,000–414,000) deaths, accounting for about one in five or six deaths in US adults.

Overweight–obesity (216,000; 188,000–237,000) and physical inactivity (191,000; 164,000–222,000) were each responsible for nearly 1 in 10 deaths.

High dietary salt (102,000; 97,000–107,000)

low dietary omega-3 fatty acids (84,000; 72,000–96,000)

high dietary trans fatty acids (82,000; 63,000–97,000) were the dietary risks with the largest mortality effects

Gun Homicides, a portion of which were justifable so really dont count........


11,000 Do we have bigger fish to fry than guns?

 

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.

Missing from list…3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….
What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven’t heard about being on drugs of some kind

Nope, I believe these drugs should be controlled more. I believe these drugs are the main cause of most childrens problems these days. I have seen the effects of these drugs first hand on many friends. Brain dead zombies, or they completely flip out.

 

Uhhhhh, it's both worse and better than you think.

 

I did for the 12 Days of New Years