No more Moab group rides

https://www.azbackroads.com/land-use/a-city-ordinance-just-banned-4x4-events-in-moab/

 

Looks like it only applies to ohv

 

I’d read the post you linked more thoroughly and the actual ordinances before posting some sort of vague negative comment.


New Restrictions in Moab
On October 20th, 2020, Moab and Grand County voted in favor of three new resolutions.

1. Stop issuing new business licenses for the sale or rental of UTVs and ATVs temporarily, and stop issuing special event permits temporarily
2. Limit the speed of OHVs in the City of Moab to 15 MPH on city streets
3. Limit the speed of OHVs in Grand County to 10 MPH below the posted speed limits

 

Seems like a GREAT thing to me.

I might feel differently if I felt like the majority of folks in UTVs gave a damn, but it seems to me - more often than not - that those in UTVs either didn't learn the etiquette of off-road travel (respect for the land, staying the trail, picking up trash, etc.) or simply don't care.

To me, UTV owners seem to generally be of the mindset that "I bought this thing, so it must be able to take me anywhere." The number of off-trail tracks (around a muddy spot in the trail, just to shortcut a corner, etc.), and chewed up roads I see from their use, makes me sad.

And yes, I know there are some 4x4s that have that same mindset, and I'm sure not all UTVers contribute to the destruction. But in general, I think more regulation - perhaps regulation and education - of their use is a good thing. They are simply too accessible to too many people, making it easy to do the wrong thing.

 

I read it, I still don't like it. I've been to Moab a few times, to me, it's just more bs rules that aren't needed.

 

You're right, these rules are blunt instruments. Here's how we got here.

The issues are noise and trail damage. The ordinances focus on noise, so I'll focus there as well.

I have nothing against UTVs in general: we use them for work routinely and they're a lifesaver there. But UTVs running down residential streets at 06:30 revving engines and blasting music is intrusive... and singularly frustrating when you have been up all night and are trying to sleep. Approaches to Kane Creek and Sand Flats route through residential areas and this behavior is pervasive from March to November.

Rally on the Rocks is a large event that brings thousands of SxSs into the area. Unfortunately, this means hundreds of people modeling these bad behaviors in addition to hundreds recreating reaponsibly. After complaints in 2018 and 2019, RotR's 2020 permit contained requirements for mufflers of similar performance to OEM and a curfew to moderate the noise impact on the town. RotR backtracked on those clauses leading up to the [cancelled] 2020 Rally and refused to include them in 2021. RotR's 2021 permit was then denied due to lack of a plan to mitigate prior years' issues. They have also been denied a permit by San Juan Co and have announced their intent to have the event anyway, for which Grand Co has threatened fines. They are currently lobbying to overturn these permit denials, including the linked article.

The new ordinances aren't a great way to mitigate the issues and they're debated even in Moab. Self-policing would be far better for all parties involved... but that has failed. So here's an attempt to moderate the in-town impacts of poorly behaved UTV operators.
UTVs are being addressed (vs mountain bikes, jeeps, or climbers) because that is where the behavior is most prevalent. If there was a large motorcycle or street-racing culture in Moab, they would be under similar scrutiny. It is not neccessarily the case that a majority of SxS drivers are causing noise issues... but it is the case that a majority of the noise issues are being caused by SxSs.

 

How is a $20k UTV that can only be used recreationally, more accessible than a typical 4x4 vehicle with a few mods?

 

Because if you can fog a mirror they'll sell you a shiny SxS that's way more capable than any stock 4x4.

 

Your response didn’t address the question about accessibility. They will just as readily sell you a typical 4wd vehicle. I’d also venture to bet there are a lot more 4WD trucks sold every year than there are SxS.

 

Because them being more capable and easily obtainable allows uneducated users to access otherwise difficult to reach areas. I've seen stock SxSs places you would never take a stock Taco.

There's also a lot of 4wd vehicles that never leave the pavement, and SxS's spend most of their time offroad.

Also, from what I've seen, people who take the time to modify a 4wd and learn about driving it offroad are way more often educated on proper trail etiquette than the average SxSer.

 

After I took my taco to Moab then rented an SxS I was like “well all that modding was silly” lol. Both were fun, but man it’s so easy to drive around a SxS.

 

For context, a local race series has a category for stock side by sides with a few extra safety features.

They DESTROY the lap times of the lower spec offroad trucks similar to "everyman" in Ultra4, etc.

 

Agreed. SxS in Utah are a cancer of their own doing. Even some of the OG SxS folks that pushed for road/trail rights in UT have privately admitted thats its gotten SO out of hand.

God forbid you try to peacefully camp at places like Vernal reservoir.

 

Ok, I’ll bite. Let me make sure I understand this line of reasoning. Anyone can buy this thing that is very capable and a few people might use it to do something bad so we should eliminate said thing. Also if you can’t prove you can be just as capable with a lesser thing than you are inferior and should be banned as well. Does that about summarize it?

If so, that sounds like the same line of reasoning that groups use to restrict off-roading in general (of all vehicle types) as well as a number of other items including firearms.

I will not compile with this reasoning.

 

Sounds like the same reasoning that put a stop to most off roading in western MT the last 20-30 yrs. Very sad.

 

Its the same way they try to push for new firearm bans too. Replace SXS or utv with Ar15 and typical 4wd with bolt action rifle. Instead of enforcing current rules/laws lets just ban it.

 

First off - one thing I think is important in a conversation like this - like so many in society today - is for folks to stay engaged, rather than digging in with an "us-vs-them" mindset. Or equating enactment of any rule to be being equivalent to something like "taking away firearms," which is an extremely politically loaded topic these days.

I've seen a lot of destruction from UTVs, some of it "after it's done" and some of it "as I was watching." In my experience, a much higher percentage of UTVs exhibit this behavior than 4x4s. In my experience the percentage isn't "a few," but is "most." But again, I recognize that what I've seen could vary from what others have seen.

What I do think would be OK/good - is to recognize that there is a problem, and try to address it. I'd actually be OK with addressing it across all offroad vehicles (4x4s included) because I think that in the last few years, the percentage of uneducated 4x4s has increased dramatically as well - as folks have gone Instalander crazy, just out to get a cool photo in an amazing place; not really understanding that in doing so irresponsibly, they are doing lots of damage.

So, I'm not saying that things should necessarily be banned indefinitely. But paused temporarily until we can figure out how to make it work in a sustainable way? That sounds OK. Needing a license to go out, and having acquisition of that license entail some education (like a drivers license, or Ham operator license)... seems like a good idea. Maybe there are more good ideas. Better ideas even.

My daughter had a book when she was growing up called "If everybody did," which is easily applicable to "creating a new trail," or "leaving toilet paper where I used it."

And again, this education could be for everyone. It might seem unnecessary for the old hats like us, but hey, in that case, it'd be easy for us. I'd happily trade that easy license, for the hope that it would help get others to be a little more educated.

 

Especially for those that rent SXS; maybe even requiring a 'hall monitor' (guide) to educate and keep'em honest. And citations as necessary.

 

I don’t like broad restrictions vs education and targeted enforcement on illegal, unsafe, or just anti-social behavior as much as the next person. But, as a Californian where ATV usage on non-OHV routes is not allowed, the behavior of many ATV (SxS, UTV etc) operators that I’ve observed on roads in Utah and Arizona is often really inappropriate. Perhaps even most operators. And it’s not much better offroad. I think Moab has a right to do what they want, there are a lot of voters there who live off the tourist business but perhaps things there reached a tipping point. Or perhaps the mountain bikers now wield more economic clout.