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Northern Virginia Roll Call

Discussion in 'Virginia' started by r6hokie, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. Jan 26, 2021 at 10:58 AM
    Mojo Jojo

    Mojo Jojo Well-Known Member

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    Herndon, VA
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    @velogeek Does this unit allow you to see what the O2 sensor is reading for an input voltage (normally between 0.1 and 0.9)? Would also be nice if it tested the resistivity of the heater but I can do that fairly easily with a multimeter. I don't think my O2 sensor is bad since the truck only has 17k miles, but I'm trying to rule things out, especially since the O2 sensors from Toyota are $175 a pop.

    I think the culprit is exhaust leaks since I'm dripping water at the joints downstream of the O2 sensor while it's warming up, but I'm not sure how to get rid of the leaks. Each of the joints in question is essentially a glorified hose clamp setup where one pipe slips inside the other and then you tighten a metal band clamp. I've got them tightened as much as I can, but they still leak water during warmup.
     
  2. Jan 26, 2021 at 11:03 AM
    crashdb

    crashdb Dangerous with an angle grinder..

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    Mark. I'm almost positive your O2 sensors are good. The code that leads toward those is P0240 if I remember right. It would also be the same for a leak. I'm not saying a leak won't cause the code you have, but I doubt it. If you want to fix the leaks on those pipes you can try placing the clamp closer to the end of the slip joint and spinning the clamp some. It may or may not work. Another solution is muffler cement. You'd have the pull the joints apart to apply it.

    Try unplugging the O2 sensors and cleaning the connections out, applying a little dielectric grease and see if that fixes it.

    I'll retract my first comment: you still could have a bad sensor, but it's not a "sensing" issue. If that makes sense. Check Rock Auto for the O2 sensor. Profit.
     
  3. Jan 26, 2021 at 11:10 AM
    Mojo Jojo

    Mojo Jojo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Dave, good info. The reason I'm suspecting the exhaust leaks is if air is getting into the exhaust, it could essentially create a lean condition the O2 sensor is seeing, which would cause a low voltage input from the O2 sensor (0.9 volts is rich, 0.1 volts is lean). But I'll try playing with the clamps as you suggested. Below are photos of the two joints in question.
     
  4. Jan 26, 2021 at 11:41 AM
    Mojo Jojo

    Mojo Jojo Well-Known Member

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    I haven't been able to definitively figure this out online but does anyone know which side of the engine is Bank 1 and which is Bank 2 for a 3rd gen? From what I've gathered, Bank 1 is on the same side as the #1 cylinder, which I believe is the passenger side, but I'd like to confirm that.
     
  5. Jan 26, 2021 at 11:43 AM
    crashdb

    crashdb Dangerous with an angle grinder..

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    Stuff that my wife thinks I don't need.
    A code can definitely pop if you have a bad enough leak. Due to emissions standards becoming stricter it's more and more a thing. But in that case it's going to be something related to cat efficiency. The upstream O2 sensors are measuring what's coming out of the engines. The downstream (post-cat) are measuring what's coming out of the cat to make sure it's doing its job. There's a little more going on, but this problem that's what is happening.

    Your clamps look to be in a good location. Rotate them and see what happens. You're getting leaks because the exhaust has been installed previously and a "pinch" has been made in the metal; deforming it. This is more or less normal. But if you don't get it lined up in such a way that those pinches don't line up you can get a very small leak. Rotating the clamps and tightening them "may" flatten out the pipes and cause them to seal better. If not, muffler cement will help. If you go down the cement route, be sure you clean up the mess. Inspectors don't always like the stuff.

    Anyway. I just looked on Rock Auto and a replacement sensor is around $60.

    When you're cleaning out the plugs check to make sure that one of the wires isn't loose. When we were at Chris' a branch or something may have gotten wedged up there and pulled on one of them. When you put the sensors back into the new pipes did you unplug them completely or use the wire-twisting method?
     
  6. Jan 26, 2021 at 11:57 AM
    Mojo Jojo

    Mojo Jojo Well-Known Member

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    When I initially installed the Y pipe, I took out the O2 sensors from the existing pipe before unplugging them from the harness, which essentially twisted the wire. When I installed them on the Y pipe I "pre-twisted" the wiring before installing the O2 sensors, if that makes sense. On hind sight I should have had them unplugged from the harness when removing/reinstalling the O2 sensors so they didn't twist at all.

    I took them both out yesterday and wiped them down and reinstalled them, this time making sure they were unplugged before removing/reinstalling them. The wires all look good and I don't see anything broken. I would still like to verify the wiring is good just to make sure. Once I figure out what color is what, I can test the heater resistivity and hopefully figure out how to get a voltage reading from the signal wire.

    In the meantime, I will probably replace the gasket where the Y pipe connects to the header since I've seen one of them leak as well (not nearly as much as the ones downstream of the O2 sensors) and it's upstream of the O2 sensor (and primary cat). I'll also try rotating the clamps, but the one above the transmission skid plate pretty much needs to be up high so it doesn't interfere with the skid plate.
     
  7. Jan 26, 2021 at 12:00 PM
    Mojo Jojo

    Mojo Jojo Well-Known Member

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    Will I be able to pass a VA safety inspection with a check engine light (CEL) on?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  8. Jan 26, 2021 at 12:05 PM
    EatSleepTacos

    EatSleepTacos Well-Known Member

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    edit: Nevermind, I’m speaking out of my ass.
     
  9. Jan 26, 2021 at 12:30 PM
    Darkgoatracer

    Darkgoatracer Well-Known Member

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    Northern VA
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    Yes.
     
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  10. Jan 26, 2021 at 12:33 PM
    velogeek

    velogeek Well-Known Asshole

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    Yeah an O2 failure is typically caught as a short/open by the ECM now and you'll get the relevant code. If you want to check for exhaust leaks, get a cheap stethoscope from Harbor Freight and a 3' section of brake tubing. I like to add a ~60 degree to one end and insert the other end in the rubber tube of the stethoscope. Then just point the end around the joint with the truck cold before the exhaust has had a chance to expand and you'll hear pretty obvious popping when you find a leak. It's a super accurate method and you'll know where a leak is within about a quarter inch.

    Those clamps are typically good to go for exhaust but if you do get a leak, I've definitely shored some up with the high temp redish RTV... just pull it loose, hit it with alcohol and a brush to clean it up nicely, then apply it to the pipe and reassemble. Be sure to get it nice and tight and let it sit to cure a little before you fire it up.

    Though I will say, water dripping is pretty normal from a cold engine and isn't necessarily an indicator of a leak... often times that's just condensation on the outside of the pipe that collects around the lower points before dripping.

    I do believe that it shows the detailed O2 info on that tool but I honestly don't remember. It unfortunately varies wildly what is shown because anything beyond the basic required stuff is up to the OEM to allow or not. Many feature lock it behind licensed tools from Snap-On and OTC and the like.

    Just a heads-up, these are going to be wide-band O2 sensors upstream which means the traditional voltage method isn't going to fly. Not sure which are downstream. Low voltage can mean either big leak forcing them in one direction or it can mean an internal short. You might see if you can find a service manual which gives testing procedures.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
    Mojo Jojo likes this.
  11. Jan 26, 2021 at 12:47 PM
    crashdb

    crashdb Dangerous with an angle grinder..

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    Emissions for sure no. I've never gotten a straight answer for safety. I've witnessed both ways. If you're only due for safety, reset the light and then go in. You'd definitely be fine that way.
     
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  12. Jan 26, 2021 at 1:01 PM
    Mojo Jojo

    Mojo Jojo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. I like the idea about the stethoscope, I'll pick one up. Trying to visualize what you are describing with the screenshot below of the HF scope, would I just add the brake hose to the end of the metal tube?

    upload_2021-1-26_16-1-1.jpg
     
  13. Jan 26, 2021 at 3:26 PM
    Hafaday

    Hafaday Well-Known Member

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    Skimming thru and checking in..

    I had good luck chasing very small exhaust leaks with this stuff over the many years of messing around with exhaust systems.

    5ECF8F01-75FD-45B8-99C9-D69112B70EBF.jpg

    This is good for the real small minor imperfections in exhaust pipe mating surface and pipe ends. manifold gaskets and even the old doughnut that went between the collector and down pipe. Hell, do they even use those anymore?.

    just throwing it out there.
     
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  14. Jan 26, 2021 at 4:06 PM
    Greg.Brakes.Tacos

    Greg.Brakes.Tacos Don't Feed the Animals

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    Yep, you think the shops gonna "waste" time/$ diagnosing your issue let alone to see if it is something to fail you on.

    My civic passed with it on (one of the catalytics is bad). Dealership just put CEL on service items recommended.
     
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  15. Jan 26, 2021 at 5:30 PM
    velogeek

    velogeek Well-Known Asshole

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    Ah yeah you'd need one more like this one from Lisle on Amazon. Just remove the entire black end piece and slip the tube inside. If it slips out, even better because the metal feeler is good for picking up noises inside parts (like which lifter is ticking) by just holding it to them.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Jan 27, 2021 at 6:23 PM
    fatfurious2

    fatfurious2 IG: great_white_taco

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  17. Jan 28, 2021 at 2:10 PM
    crashdb

    crashdb Dangerous with an angle grinder..

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  18. Jan 28, 2021 at 2:31 PM
    BTHawk

    BTHawk OFP

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    OME 888s, Nitros, HD Dakars, LR UCAs, SCS Ray10s, 255/80/17 Cooper S/T MAXX, Mobtown Sliders and Skids, Wheelers Front Bumps, Stealth HD Rear UBolt Flip with Archive Bumps, Sherpa Grand Teton, ARB OBA, BD S1 ditch lights, DD SS3 Fogs.
  19. Jan 28, 2021 at 2:33 PM
    crashdb

    crashdb Dangerous with an angle grinder..

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    I'm old school. I prefer big round lights.
     
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  20. Jan 28, 2021 at 2:39 PM
    BTHawk

    BTHawk OFP

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    I think that is why I like those...closer in shape/look to the KCs I used to run on my Heeps.
     

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