Off-road - old vs new

You're not allowed to say this! Every year, every generation, they make them less capable and less reliable, all makes and all models!
It's a hard and fast rule.
Signed,
Instanetz

 

More reliable? Have you looked underneath and in the engine bay of yours? See all those pretty little colored wires going all over the place? I dare anyone to park theirs for a week in a field with bunnies and rats and say its more reliable when they try to start it!

 

My engine bay has very little in the way of wire loom and harnesses in comparison to older engines. Certainly a lot less vacuum lines. You might want to pop the hood on a new truck. The lever is to the left of the steering wheel. Don’t be afraid!

 

My experience I'd have to vote the new stuff for being more capable, stock vs stock.....

 

Older .... no electronics , gear driven lever operated t/ cases , manual locking hubs and solid front axle


Very reliable , easy to work on and very strong bullet proof drivetrain


Newer 4x4's advanced electronics with sensors and control modules and electrical operated t/ cases


Needs dealer to work on electrical issues , weak drivetrain components

 

Dirt everyday episode ... taking unmodded older stock vehicles over the famous Rubicon trail

https://youtu.be/oGGRAXhxZVA

 

You’re kidding, right? All those pretty colored exposed 24-gauge wires leading to sensors all over the engine and other places under the truck? My 1985 PU had nowhere as many sensors and wires in it.

 

Watch the channel 4wd action on YouTube. Bunch of Aussie dudes who have a range of vehicles. Old and new massive lift to moderate lift massive tires to around stockers. These guys take these trucks threw windshield deep water and mud and strait up hills. They show you you can off-road with a $200k+ vehicle as well as a $500 vehicle super great guys great watch and really answers a lot of questions one would have about off-road!

 

Personally I think modern trucks perform worse for many reasons some reasons I'll note below.

Axles:
Most vehicles built 20 years ago were solid axle, there is no denying a solid axle is stronger than IFS while IFS offers more comfort. A good example is the old GM CUCV trucks that ran a Kingpin Dana 60 and a Full Float GM 14 bolt with Detroit Locker. Despite the low-pinion 60 these axles are nigh unbreakable and are often swapped into rock crawlers. Your 1-ton trucks still use Dana 60's, 14 bolts, and Sterling 10.5s but most every vehicle sub a super duty have switched to IFS.

Transmissions:
The NV4500 is a perfect example of a modern transmission that isn't necessarily stronger than it's predecessor of the SM465 and SM 420 also used in 1-ton Gm trucks. The SM465 is proven and legendary in the offroad community while the NV4500 has been questioned on it's reliability and strength despite being used in modern 1-ton vehicles.

Older transmissions were also geared for power, many having a granny gear, the SM465 for example has a 6.55:1 1st gear as opposed to new transmissions built for fuel economy, our Tacoma being 3.6:1

Approach/Departure angle:
Older vehicles are generally better all around in approach and departure angles, this is partly because newer vehicles meeting crash ratings and test requirements. The nose on the Tacoma is HUGE for a reason and doesn't help much for offroad as compared to it's predecessor.

A good example of old vs new is a the LC 79 vs a Hylux/Tacoma. They still make LC79's and come generally standard with front and rear lockers, solid axle etc. The LC79 is significantly more capable stock than a Tacoma or Hylux

 

Should we also consider stock to stock off-road safety? If so, it you roll over with a old truck, good luck not getting crushed. Or if you crash, good luck not getting impaled by the steering column or getting your legs crushed by the engine.

 

I had a 68 M38A1 Jeep that had a SM465 and along with a Advanced Adapters Dana 18 t/case with 3.50:1 low range and warn overdrive with 25% reduction and 5.38 geared dana 44's made this Jeep a low geared Crawler

With 12 forward gears and 3 reverse and overall low range of 123:1 it was fun . The Dana 44 rear axle had a full floater set up with warn locking hubs with a Detroit locker The front Dana 44 had a Detroit locker

 

I know this isn't related to our trucks , but towards my 72 Camaro and related safety improvements . I have a NHRA Certified 9.90 Et 8 point roll cage installed by a Race car chassis fab shop . The cage is welded to the front subframe mount , at the rockers , tied to the welded subframe connectors and then at the trunk to the trunk floor

The seats are Kirkey's that are bolted to the cage and running RCI 5 point harnesses bolted to the cage as per NHRA

As mentioned this is NHRA certified to 9.90Et and track safety inspection legal . However I've been pulled over a few times while driving around town and ea time for safety issues and illegal modifications . The Officers state that I've illegally modified the crash characteristics of my car making it unsafe . Some have actually mentioned that 1rst responders ( Fire Dept) will have a much harder time rescuing me

I've told the officers and shown them the NHRA chassis cert and telling them it is much safer than stock but they tell me it's now unsafe and dangerous and I can be seriously injured . I myself feel safer driving it now

 

I have “limp mode”, your ‘85 has “dead on the road mode”

 

I've made my living working on Toyotas since 1978 … Trust me everything has changed !!!!!

 

Less rust and more cup holders!

 

Do we remember the ad campaign that introduced the Toyota 4x4 ? Box stock 20r does the Rubicon … Been there done that , but I do love my '18 !

 

Since 2000 though? OP was asking about the off-road capability of 20 year old trucks compared to current.

A 2000 TRD OR is pretty similar to a 2020 TRD OR. The new one has the advantages of HP and traction control. The old one is much lighter and a physically smaller with more body clearance.

 

Yes, my lightly modded 2019 OR can go through tougher shit than my slightly more modded 1996 FZJ80.

Funny place - the third gen subforum......I hunt local ranches here extensively on my off-time and many of my compatriots have Jeeps. There is a lot more respect for the Tacoma just about everywhere but the third gen subforum. Makes you think.

 

I watch these from time to time, and remark how the one fella in the modern Mitsubishi auto, on 31” tires, goes pretty much everywhere they guys in land cruisers on 35”s go. His advantage: modern traction control and an automatic transmission.

 

100% brother! Like they say pick your line and dedicate to it is 99% of the battle. I love watching all the different vehicles they take with them!