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Oil prices go up ,,, why is that again ??

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by 4WD, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Feb 23, 2011 at 12:43 PM
    #1
    4WD

    4WD [OP] cRaZy oLdmAn

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    Officials & news media both claim that the rise in oil cost is directly related to current turmoil in middle east (as they always do) Egypt, now Libya etc;

    What I really wanted to see is what are the thoughts on the people of Egypt ousting their "President" of 30 + years (if your in office holding all the marbles for that long, you're a dictator)

    I don't really want to see this get overly political or religious, thats not what I'm looking for , just some opinions from a Western Democracy type point of view No Republican vs. Democrat or a Christianity vs. Islam debate, just how YOU as a member of western society see things..

    I'll start.

    Personally I'm proud as hell of the people of Egypt for they, as a country & as countrymen of said country had finally had enough of their brand of oppression & the masses stood up & would not be ignored or silenced any more, " We'll stay here & end this regime or die trying" Is what I heard alot of during media interviews in the town square they stood their ground..

    Will it change for Egypt ? Probably..

    Will the next ruling gov. be a pro western one ? Maybe somewhat...

    But that doesn't matter, thats not the issue..

    What I see is the birth of a democracy which in more than a few ways mirrors our own struggle to self rule thru the wants of the majority of countrymen...

    What they end up with in the end may not be what some would want, but I think alot of countries around the world, some close to us could learn alot from whats going on , because like it or not how Egypt is going about real change & reform is in reality how its done, & I applaud them for that... just my $.02.....:cool:
     
  2. Feb 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM
    #2
    4WD

    4WD [OP] cRaZy oLdmAn

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    Come on, surely some of you have formed an opinion at recent turn of events... don't be shy....;)
     
  3. Feb 23, 2011 at 1:05 PM
    #3
    Lost_Humanity

    Lost_Humanity Bad decisions make great stories.

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    I'm all for it.

    The Middle East has long been underdeveloped because of dictators and monarchs, who use suppression as a means of consistency.

    Egypt may elect a government which is not as "friendly" to us as we were used to, but they understand that the mass majority of their economy stems from western tourism and billions in aid, so they won't go too far.

    I also feel that with a greater development in education, there will (eventually) an easing of religious intolerance. Throughout the world, as people become more educated, radicalism ebbs with a more open-minded conscience.

    I could go on and on...
     
  4. Feb 23, 2011 at 1:08 PM
    #4
    o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Well-Known Member

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    The most organized rebellion group in Egypt is an organization called the Muslim Brotherhood. Their mission statement is to install islamic law around the world.

    Say what you will about Mubarak being a dictator and keeping his people down. I believe Egypt was the first arab state to acknowledge the existence of Israel. Mubarak also supported the US against radical islam.

    We've already seen in the first few weeks of having the military in charge that apparently the suez canal operator invited some Iranian warships to come through. Mubarak is no saint, but to replace him with the Muslim Brotherhood is a mistake.
     
  5. Feb 23, 2011 at 1:09 PM
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    Lost_Humanity

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    As for oil prices -- that's mainly fueled by speculation.

    I was listening to a report this morning, and oil production hasn't decreased in the Middle East. But with Libya in turmoil, Iranian warships in the Suez, and a host of uprisings, speculators are doing 2 things -- trying to hedge against eventual losses, and building reserves in case production substantially slows.
     
  6. Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM
    #6
    Lost_Humanity

    Lost_Humanity Bad decisions make great stories.

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    I had a long conversation with a good friend of mine about this. Yep, the Brotherhood are fundies, but see my above post on why they won't get too out of line.

    Egypt is not a major concern. Concern, yes, but not overly so. I would worry more about Libya and Bahrain. Those are your trouble spots.

    Also -- keep an eye on Iran. They might seize this period of unrest to go balls-out on Israel, and if that happens, we will all be in a world of shit we haven't seen in half a century.
     
  7. Feb 23, 2011 at 1:17 PM
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    bonsai3s

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    We visited Eygpt many years ago and much like China, we were overwhelmed by the crowded streets...literally elbow to elbow with people. 4WD, you are right, the birth of democracy is a good sign...there are those who genuinely have good intentions. Regrettably, with that many people, there are those who will continue to be corrupt and prevent real change. Remember, our beautiful country is only about 230 years old...Eygpt has been around for thousands of years. It will take time to change.
     
  8. Feb 23, 2011 at 1:29 PM
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    Lost_Humanity

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    Egypt, in its current state, has only really been around since the end of WWI.

    The test of a true democracy isn't to compare it to what we know and want, it's to determine what the people of that democracy want and their ability to achieve it.

    If you show me a democracy without corruption, I will show you Valhalla. Corruption exists everywhere in human nature. The trick is to contain the corruption to acceptable levels which aren't of great detriment to the general populace.

    Egypt is an intricate and exciting place. I'm looking forward to seeing how they carve their niche in world dynamics.
     
  9. Feb 23, 2011 at 2:08 PM
    #9
    4WD

    4WD [OP] cRaZy oLdmAn

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    This may be true but don't forget there is always groups that will jump on the band wagon when a country is in a teetering state, its easier at that point to "get their word out", Proclaiming that "they" are the voice of the people & time usually roots them out & these groups are generally more bark than bite, & your mention of the "Mission statement is to install Islamic law around the world." Is, like it or not , no different than alot of Christian groups doing "missionary work" spreading Christianity around the world, there again , this topic isn't a religion based issue. I don't support one religion or its beliefs over another one..

     
  10. Feb 23, 2011 at 2:41 PM
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    Lost_Humanity

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    I think very few revolutions are religiously-based. China has had religion suppressed for a century now, and they show no signs of revolution. Most occur when there is such a disconnect between the people at the top and the population that it becomes apparent that the needs of the country are not being met.

    Coincidently, an outlier to this is the American Revolution. People in the Colonies were the wealthiest and enjoyed greater freedoms than any that have ever declared independence. Americans, greedy from the outset. :D

    Of course, it was because of that ambition that we have become the world leaders in more exploits than possibly imagined.
     
  11. Feb 23, 2011 at 2:59 PM
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    Lost_Humanity

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    I do love how before he stepped down, Mubarak install Suleiman as his replacement. Because that's what the Egyptian people need, a master of espionage and subterfuge...
     
  12. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:04 PM
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    4WD

    4WD [OP] cRaZy oLdmAn

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    I love it as much as the fact that Mubarak's first order of business was to inact marshal law after Anwar Sadat's assasination ( I remember when that went down) He just forgot to repeal it 30+ years later, innocent mistake I know....:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  13. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:07 PM
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    OZ-T

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    Quick question , if Egypt was so backwards and un-democratic , why were you guys giving them 10's of billions of dollars in military and other aid ?

    Devil you know ?
     
  14. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:13 PM
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    98tacoma27

    98tacoma27 is gooder 'en chicken Moderator

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal
     
  15. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:14 PM
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    4WD

    4WD [OP] cRaZy oLdmAn

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    Ya know OZ, I don't know if its a backwards ,un democratic country or not, I think its more like the middle east countries in general all hate our U.S. ass's, we just throw money at the ones that hate us the least....

    :notsure:

    I can say that if it weren't for the abundance of cheap oil we got from them for years that we wouldn't give 2 shits about them either, or throw a nickle their way ;)
     
  16. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:14 PM
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    OZ-T

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  17. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:16 PM
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    Lost_Humanity

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  18. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:18 PM
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    OZ-T

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    Uh , I was kinda under the understanding that Israel was your strongest ally in the MidEast , which is why you give them more money than you did to Egypt .

    Am I wrong ? :confused:
     
  19. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:27 PM
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    Lost_Humanity

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    Long story. I'll try and sum it up.

    During WWI, as the allies (almost everyone but the US, because we were in a period of isolationism) were divvying up the Middle East for their own territorial aspirations, a guy by the name of David Ben-Guiron got an idea that Jewish people should have their own state because of all the shit they were getting all over the world. (Massive backlash in Europe, the Bolshevik Revolution and subsequent genocide, etc.) England thought this was a wonderful idea and decided to push the issue, making it a feel-good cause.

    It was this that kinda spurred the US into action and agreed to join the fight. After everything was said and done, and all empty promises that were made started falling apart (stuff like independence, territory, etc.), most of the European allies backed away from their territorial claims, and England shied off it's stance for an independent Jewish state, leaving the US holding the bag.

    Since then, we've kind of been their Big Brother, looking out for them and generally getting a lot of shit from the rest of the continent for it.

    Disclaimer: I may have some names/facts confused. I'm doing this off memory, and I don't have the time to look it all up. But that's the gist.
     
  20. Feb 23, 2011 at 3:29 PM
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    4WD

    4WD [OP] cRaZy oLdmAn

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    Shit brother, they're ALL a bunch of turncoats at the end of the day

    but maybe , forget maybe, this is a no brainer. If WE didn't go around sticking our noses in everyone's shit telling them how to live ( I say this because like it or not , not all of the U.S.'s intervention (or interference to some) around the world have been the noblest of gestures IMO. The hate sentiment would be far less, unless I was totally asleep in civics & world history this nation was kinda founded on the "Stop telling us how to run our lives." Hence we told Britain to shove their BIG BROTHER attitude & their taxation up their royal ass...
     
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