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Oil question -- NOT TYPICAL

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by hawking, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. Sep 29, 2011 at 6:37 AM
    #1
    hawking

    hawking [OP] Member

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    Ok, so the engine here is the 2TR-FE, which calls for 0W20 synthetic oil with 5000 mile change interval.

    I'm looking at Amsoil products for oil changes. Last oil change was to Pennzoil 0W20 since that was the *ONLY* 0W20 available at Crappy* Tire (* Canadian Tire). It struck me as being quite expensive at $10.50/qt. Now since I'm going to be heading down to the US in 3 months, I figured that it might be a good idea to pick up a bunch of oil for a more fair price.... so this is what I'm looking at;

    There are THREE different "grades" of synthetic 0W20 available from AMSOIL....

    OE, XL, and Signature Series.

    What strikes me as interesting is listed under "service life".
    OE states: follow manufacturer's recommendation.
    http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/oez.aspx

    XL states: up to 10,000 miles or *LONGER WHEN RECOMMENDED BY MANUFACTURER*, or 6 months.
    http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlz.aspx

    SS states: up to 15,000 miles (severe service) or 25,000 miles (normal service), or 1 year. :eek:
    http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asm.aspx

    What is interesting about this is that what they imply, is to take the LONGER of the number that AMSOIL themselves recommend, or the manufacturer's recommendations. The manufacturer recommends 5,000 miles, so AMSOIL seems to suggest that their oil is so good that you can run it 5 times farther between changes.

    Now I personally won't be running 25,000 miles in a year. More like 25,000 km (a bit over 15,000 miles), so I would be able to follow the severe service change interval while qualifying for normal service.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this? Is AMSOIL really that good? AMSOIL SS costs the same amount as Pennzoil, but if I could cut down to 1 change per year rather than 3, it would reduce my oil expense by 67% compared to the pennzoil.

    And please, don't bother saying anything like "cheap insurance". I'm looking for something more substantial than that.
     
  2. Sep 29, 2011 at 7:14 AM
    #2
    OH-MAN

    OH-MAN Well-Known Member

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    I have heard good things about amsoil but if you go for long intervals between changes you will need to change filters at 5000 miles.
    The filter change takes about the same amount of time on my 6 cyl as changing the oil so it is not a big deal to change it for me.

    That said compare cost of Mobil 1 and 5000 mi changes to the amsoil and filter changes to see if it is worth it for you to go that route.
     
  3. Sep 29, 2011 at 7:18 AM
    #3
    saugus

    saugus Well-Known Member

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    Notice all the hype and performance tests on Amsoil. They don't lie right? At least that's what the people performing the tests want you to believe. Guess who those people are? How many independent groups have tested the 25,000 mile promise? And what is that 25,000 mile promise anyway? A promise that the oil will be fine until 25,000 miles? Or a promise that it won't break down for 25,000 miles? These are two completely different things. Blow by, oil burning and plugged up filters will all occur no matter the oil. So if you want to go a long time with your oil, then you better have a bunch of filters to use.

    I recommend going to walmart when you are here. They have the best 0w-20 prices. Mobil1 for sure, can't remember what else though.
     
  4. Sep 29, 2011 at 7:25 AM
    #4
    skytower

    skytower Well-Known Member

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    Amsoil recommends changing the filter every 5k miles.
    I don't look at it from a savings in cost of oil changes from one oil to another. I see it from a quality of protection point of view. Wear tests indicate Amsoil protects the best. That's what I use.

    I am awaiting the results of the oil analysis after 15k miles.
     
  5. Sep 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM
    #5
    hawking

    hawking [OP] Member

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    Regarding the oil filter....
    Actually, for the OE and XL oils, they say to replace the oil filter at every oil change. *NOT NECESSARILY* 5000 miles. Presumably, if the oil is better, it protects the engine better, and you end up with less junk to filter out. At least to a certain degree. The SS oil suggests to use "AMSOIL EA Full-Flow Oil Filters" for extended change intervals.

    Hmm.... looks like they offer Ea15k oil filters for 2TR, but not EaO filters. That puts a cap on the change interval at 15,000 miles, regardless of normal or severe use.

    Their warranty is interesting, it says that parts won't be damaged as a result of lubrication when following amsoil recommendations, or they'll pay to fix it (essentially).

    Now I don't think that running to 10,000 miles is too much of a stretch. Toyota has moved most of their vehicles up to 10,000 miles for synthetic oils..... so would it really be that much of a stretch to run it up to 15,000?


    The responses are pretty interesting. Some praising AMSOIL, others sceptical.

    saugus: obviously, every manufacturer wants to say that their product is the very best. Just read the side of ANY brand of oil. It is, however, quite interesting, that AMSOIL seems to be the ONLY manufacturer that actually talks about the specific characteristics. One would think that falsifying their data would be met with some counter-attacks from their competitors, especially for an organization as well known as AMSOIL. No, I don't think that they are actually presenting false information. You can bet that their competitors are all running the same tests and would jump all over them if something was out of line.... so I tend to believe that AMSOIL really *is* a very good oil. My question though, is more along the lines of whether it is **SO GOOD** that it could extend the oil change interval by a factor of 3.

    I can *easily* see a filter being good for that, simple matter of tripling the surface area.... but $15 per filter is highway robbery compared to... $3-$5 for a regular filter? Mind you, if it lasts for 3x as long and costs 3x as much... it evens out in the end.

    Anybody got a price for, say Mobile 1 0w20 at walmart? The actual cost of oil changes would break even if the Mobile 1 was $3.50/qt. Any higher than that, and it costs more to use M1 than AMSOIL SS with 15k changes.

    If the price works out in favor of the AMSOIL SS, I might do a run with it and get analysis at 5,000, 10,000, and 15,000 (if the 10,000 still looks good...). One would think that this approach would cover all the bases.
     
  6. Sep 29, 2011 at 2:16 PM
    #6
    skytower

    skytower Well-Known Member

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    I did analysis on the tugboat engines I worked on. It makes sense to sample instead of changing 150-300 gallons of oil.
    It makes sense to sample on a vehicle engine too. It finds problems with the engine before it happens (bearings failing, induction leak via dirt, fuel, water etc). It also finds problems with your oil, TBN for example(total base number, resists acids from combustion).
    You can do it from the dipstick via a vampire(hand pump) or do it from the drain plug. There are specifics for each method. Check Amsoil's website for details.
     
  7. Sep 29, 2011 at 5:59 PM
    #7
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    The simple answer is 'yes', but it's not limited to Amsoil by any means. There are several very good oils available through conventional retailers, including Pennzoil Ultra and Mobil1 Extended Life.

    But don't go more than ~10K between drain intervals without doing used oil analysis. The oil can quickly loose capacity to handle acids, something called TBN, and bad things will start to happen. Most any of the good oils are easily good for 15k, so 10k leaves margin if you don't do periodic UOA's.

    I've never understood the obsession with oil filters. It's the air filter you should worry about. If your oil filter is filling up then either the air filter is letting WAY too much dirt and dust past that gets blown by the rings, or your engine is making metal bits and it's too late. Keep your air filter clean and all fittings in the air path tight and you should never have a problem with the oil filter filling up. Your oil filter will bypass on cold starts until the oil warms and thins down... it's normal... so keep your oil clean by keeping the air filter well maintained. And don't use K&N's.
     
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