Overlanding: Sport or Off road

Nice! Thanks! Really like the MGM too. That Habitat has got me hooked. Don't want to ship to the NE though, guess I'll have to make a trip to canyon country.

 

Awesome, it's like a caffeine addiction reading these forums.

 

And a wallet depletion

 

I have to say I'm impressed with the responses in this thread and agree with all of the recommendations that have been made so far. Kind of surprised that nobody has started bashing the OP for his question.

With that said I'd like to add to the already recommended statements. Keep your truck, run it, and find out what you do/don't like for the next one. As stated, driver experience is far more important than any mod or gear you can buy.

Additionally, if you like to look at numbers, I'm assuming that your current truck is either paid for or at least a decent amount of it has been. If you sell/trade it in for a 3rd gen you will still be out of pocket a fair amount. I'm not going to throw out numbers like I know, but you will not likely get what you paid for your current truck (even though it sounds like a premium buy) and definitely will not cover the cost of a new truck.

You could probably buy some really useful mods/gear for the amount you would save between buying a new truck. Recovery gear etc will go far. Maybe even go as far as adding a locker into your current truck for the price difference if you find out that it is truley something you would use. You don't even know if you will at this point.

On the topic of lockers, it's great to have one in your truck but when you're planning an "Overland" vehicle you're planning on lots of weight, therefore most people like to re-gear. (Great opportunity for you to throw in a locker) The gearing is not something an OR would solve.

 

I will say this though there was one spot that my right front tire hit a big hole that i didnt see but i didnt get stuck, and kept on rolling, I looked in the rear view mirror and saw her hit the same hole and got stuck, one wheel was off the ground, i had to pull her out of that one, so thats one situation where bigger tires and a little more ground clearance(she bottomed out) and a locker would have helped but when you travel as a group you always have someone to pull you out.

 

For mid travel, I have King extended travel coilovers, and total chaos control arms on my 2004 doublecab. MT is really the way to go since the mods required to get it to work are minimal. LT is redonk involved, and expensive. Worth it if you aspire to race the Baja 1000, but not worth it for much else, imo. Shocks, upper control arms, maybe a diff drop kit. That’s pretty much it. I had to modify my skid plate to get the diff drop to fit, but from what I hear, diff drops aren’t as necessary on 2nd or 3rd gens as they are on 1st gens, bu IMO, a diff drop is cheap insurancefor a good cv angle.

I was out with a friend several weeks ago, he has stock springs with 5100s. I was going faster than him and was just having a grand time going a decent clip on some fire roads. When he eventually caught up, was telling me he kept “finding his bump stops” a lot. I never hit mine, didn’t feel like I was even working them very hard!


For your limo, maybe just lift it a bit (3”), and run some 33s, that will get the frame up and out of the way a bit, but yeah, IMO, there isn’t much else you can reasonably do. Maybe belly skids?

 

I have the 2017 TRD Sport. It's done very well for me. It has served my needs for what I like to do.

 

yes.

 

Hold my beer. (proceeds to make fun of OP for "overlanding")

One suggestion Irked me though...

someone said it was "nice" to not have crawl etc...

Thats dumb. Thats really really dumb.

Not one single time have I ever had something and wished I didnt, Many times i have gone without and wished i had something. Having all the cool OR stuff is FANTASTIC 100% of the time, if anybody says different they are silly. FURTHERMORE, Just because you have Crawl or all the other fancy buttons, knobs, and/or dials doesnt mean you have to use them, but its nice to know they are there if you want to.

 

Although I understand what you're saying in that these supplemental systems are nice to have at hand, I don't agree with calling people's opinions dumb because you disagree.

People have been wheeling in these trucks for a very long time without these nanny systems and done so very successful. These nanny systems are no replacement for driving skill. The point of the post was to bring to attention that it's not a bad thing to build your experience without all the fancy buttons/switches. I can think of plenty of analogies for this but let's keep it simple.

Additionally, I have been involed in conversations reguarding these systems with people far more experienced than myself who have stated that things, such as Crawl control are last ditch effort systems. They are truly for the times where you are out of options. These systems use the brakes to control power output and have a tendency to shorten the brake fluid life. If you use these systems on the regular, change your brake fluid in shorter intervals.

 

I think what’s “nice” about not having crawl control is, well, not having to buy a vehicle with crawl control. You know, spending money on things you don’t really need. Yes, you don’t have to use them even if you have them. But I have to ask: if you don’t use them, why have them? That’s money you could have spent on recovery or communication gear, which not even the fanciest $50,000+ TRD Pro comes with. Which are FAR more important to have than some stupid button that slams on your brakes for you.

As others said, crawl control are simply crutch systems, and don’t make you a better driver, or any safer.

Pilots don’t learn to fly plane with autopilot systems, off road drivers shouldn’t either.

 

You seem to have been here on the TW so you must know by now that whatever you are doing, you are doing it wrong any way you do it.

There are a few differences between sport and the OR other than buttons and knobs (body molding specifically that dumb looking lip thing on the front of a sport, Shocks/suspension, friggin Sweet decal that says TRD offroad, other things I'm forgetting). If you are going to be offroading or "overlanding" might as well get the one that comes best equipped for it off the lot. The difference in price between sport and OR is not that substantial. I dont think most people that opted for the OR did so because of the crawl control (i did it for that sweet OR sticker bruh).

If those systems are "crutch systems" i guess wheeling with other people is like a wheelchair (ie are you more prone to do stupid things or push boundaries knowing you can get yanked out)? Does simply having those systems somehow make you bad at offroading?

I get what youre saying about learning. I havent used the crawl control (other than the time i did get stuck on purpose to test it out, Does not work when you bury your truck in sand up to the frame btw(also its really hard to get that stuck in this truck. i tried really hard). Of course All the buttons and auto whatever arent a replacement for picking a good line and knowing the limitations of your vehicle, but having them is 100% not a bad deal.

 

I have traction control, hill assist, and lots of other buttons on my 4x4 SR5 4Runner. Aside from my pizza cutter street tires and the locker, mine is just as capable off road as an OR or TRD, given a driver with skills.

The problem is that even a TRD Pro doesn't actually come "equipped" for serious off-roading or "overlanding" anyway (at least, imo). It sure looks like it does, though. Same stupid plastic bumpers, same crap hanging below the frame (although they do have a shiny skid plate in the front), no winch, no recovery gear (not even a tow strap), no gas cans, no communication, hell, not even lights (I don't count headlights as "lights" for off road). For what you can spend on a TRD Pro, I can fully build my SR5 with plate bumpers, rock sliders, winch/recovery gear, ICON suspension, 33's, etc... Probably even get a paint job or a wrap in that Sand color.

Um no, not really. Crawl control doesn't teach you how to drive, like another more experienced driver can. Crawl control doesn't spot you and show you better lines. Crawl control won't winch you out when you get stuck, or share a beer or two with you at the campfire and tease you for that time they had to pull you out. Again.

IMO, it's more like 50% a bad deal. So that means 50% good deal. Very useful in some situations, but throw a noob on a trail and he'll get stuck even though the salesman said "this is the the most awesome gadget thingy you can own." It's just like anti-locking brakes. An experienced driver can stop shorter than a noob with ABS. The reason is the computer actually shuts OFF the brakes momentarily when it senses a skid. But, since 95% of drivers out there aren't good enough to anticipate a skid and prevent it, we have electronics that do it for us. If only our driver training was more like Germany or Norway, where it's more like getting a pilot's license where it takes months, even years to train you in various emergency conditions. Instead, We americans just want to make sure you know what a stop sign looks like. Sorry, I digress... Back on topic, lol...

Back in the day (1st gen Tacos), the TRDs came with rear lockers and suspension (skinny bilsteins), and the non-TRDs were already equipped with a great/reliable 4x4 package (they still are, for the most part), high ground clearance, etc... Now, TRDs (pros), and ORs come with lockers and suspension, but also come with fancy stickers, cool looking shifter knobs and floor mats, lots of buttons and switches, not to mention that sweet Sand color, and even a hood scoop! As you say, there are more differences between the ORs and others, but they are almost all cosmetic.

If I'm going to spend $50k+ on a brand new trail rig, it better have more than a locker, cosmetic upgrades, and some buttons, IF I intend to wheel with it. It should already have steel trail armor, a winch and other recovery equipment, heck, maybe more than just some skinny bilsteins would be good too. If I just want to make it *look* like I go offroading, then they are perfectly equipped.

 

But that sticker bruh!

FWIW the stock taco is pretty darn capable off the lot. It really kind of depends on how "extreme" you plan on getting.

 

The TRDs have since upgraded to a badge, not just a sticker, lol.

That's really what makes the Toyotas such a great platform for off roading: their off road prowess right off the lot. I see MANY threads like "just bought a 4x4, what mods to go wheelin?"

At least most people ask "well, have you tried driving it offroad yet?"

I have seen my share of dudes (or ladies) in nearly stock Yoda's wheel circles around guys with 35's, on-board welders, and $10k in other upgrades (usually jeeps, but squids drive all brands, lol). My brother ran a turbo '86 4runner for years (that I eventually bought from him). He had "custom" leafs in the back, Rancho torsion bars up front, 32" M/T's and open diffs.

 

Mother of all block-wall texts!!

 

I prefer a real truck: A 1st gen.

 

I miss my '86 4Runner.

 

I have had three Tacomas, all were/are 4x4 Off Road TRDs... 2001, 2005, 2010.

I bought my trucks for work and for fun... not for any 'sport looks'.

The thing about having a locker, A-TRAC, MTS, or Crawl, is added insurance that when you get into really tough, high centering, deep muck situations, these 'electronic gizmos' are insurance you can use and not have to get a buddy or expensive service to pull you out.

I simply never get stuck anymore with A-TRAC. Before, to get unstuck, I would take more air out of the tires, use the locker, dig away the sand, etc. I can go into the same sh*t with my A-TRAC truck and not do any extra work.

Having no slipping tires on all four corners (vs. just the back two not slipping with a locker) is really a dream ride and the thing climbs like a Sherman tank.

Yes, I can drive a plain 4WD, open differential truck most anywhere (I have been driving a four wheeler for over 40 years). But, with the Off Road 4WD I know I can also get back out from everywhere, with ease, and no help. That is worth the cost of the Off Road package, in my opinion. Plus, the fake hood scoop is seriously annoying (when I test drove a Sport) and in the line of sight when climbing steep grades, as I often do.

I also have pulled others out of problems because I have the most able vehicle. The Jeep club watching from the top of the Diablo Drop Off said it would be impossible for any of our Tacoma trucks to pull this one out of a sand dune stuck and up the drop off. Here was the rear locked and A-TRAC turned on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m1u1pba4Ps

 

That’s just it, you’re highly experienced off road, with 40 years of driving. Take a noob fresh off the lot with their brand new a-track, and you won’t get the same results. Sure, they can drive more places, but it will also allow them to get into more dangerous situations. A-track doesn't tell you which way to turn your vehicle when backing down an off camber hill, or which line to take, or where the corners of your vehicle are.

It’s a great tool, but shouldn’t replace driving experience, like what you have.

I have a-track on my ‘17 SR5 4Runner, but I didn't actually buy it to wheel with, but as a daily driver. My 04 doublecab is my dirt toy now.

I like that the guy had his hazard lights on, lol.