Pay an expert. Alignment bliss achieved.

Ooh ok I’ll do this. That’s a fun excercise in answering a simple question. If you have negative camber on the left steer and positive camber on the right steer, it will wander right.


This guy wanders left.

But before you go any further, explain how you think you know what you’re talking about.

 

No, that is not true. I understand why you would think that, but it isn't true. In the picture you show, the car still rolls straight. Try this with your feet right now. Get up, put weight on the outside of one foot and the inside of the other and walk. You don't go in circles. Tires go in the direction they are pointed. It doesn't matter if the weight is placed on the inside or the outside.

Now think about this logically. To turn, there has to be a force to make that happen. The inside of the tire would have to speed up or slow down in order to make it turn. In your camber scenario all you are doing is placing weight. That weight won't increase the rolling resistance on one side or decrease the other to initiate a turning motion.

I think what makes most people assume that camber makes a pull is what happens if you roll a tire on edge. It will turn, but not because it is on edge, but because of gravity. That isn't the case when it is attached to a car and spinning on an axle. Remember, a tire will always go the direction it is pointed. If you keep your hand on a tire rolling on edge, it will always roll straight (because you are counteracting gravity).

They do adjust camber in Nascar, but it is for a different reason. In Nascar you want the tires to sit as flat as possible in the turns. It doesn't make the car turn. That is cuased by tire stagger and caster.

I think what you are confused by is the fact that on an IFS suspension these angles are not adjusted independentally and when you change camber it changes caster as well as toe because they are all connected to the same steering axis.

If you really do alignments and use hunter equipment ask your rep for a hunter little wood car and have them demo it. That little car did more for me in terms of being able to understand the concepts in 10 minutes than all the years of education. That car shows what happens with toe, thrust angle, camber, etc. all with a simple toy and a piece of white paper.

I can go on and on if you want, but that is just to educate you, not to argue with you.

 

Lol no. Read the first sentence... pass. I do this for DOT. Your “logic” and “physics” is treehouse/clownshoes.

 

I had the top nut come loose on the driver's side SPC arm last month and threw the camber way off on that side, my front end looked like this on the drive home l \

It pulled something fierce on that drive, too.

 

Practically wrong on every count. Technically wrong on 99.9% of possible settings.

AS pictured, the force upward from the road on the inside edge of the tire is forcing the top of one tire outward but it is being pulled inward by the upper ball joint and tie rod. The other tire's forces are pushing inward on the upper joint and tie rod. Those forces are not equal and opposite, they are in the same direction and will cause the tires to want to twist in the same direction. The only time that wont happen is when there is zero caster, since the ball joints would be lined up, there would be very little force on the tie rods. There's the .01% where your post makes sense.

StunGun is correct except for one minor point. The direction of pull will depend on if the tie rods are in front of or behind the ball joints.

 

100% nonsense. You can't support your satements with physics. You add other angles in to your justification which is where your logic is completely flawed. It is the other anlges that cause the pull.

You have me rolling on the floor with your assertion that the position of the tie rods impact the pull. Again, you are confusing other angles with the cause. If you have to add other variables in to your equation, you are no longer talking camber. You do not need a steering axis to measure camber.

As I have stated all along, I can show you that caster variances can cause a pull and support that with the application of math to science. Until you or anyone else for that matter can do the same with camber, you should really keep your mouth shut because you clearly do not know what you are talking about.

 

I got an alignment on my 02 Toyota Tacoma Pre Runner 2 years ago at a Discount Tire center in San Bernardino . Ever since then I was fighting a very bad bump steer problem and heavy steering wheel input

About 6 months ago and from referral from a friend I went to this particular Firestone dealership up here in the High Desert for an alignment . After the alignment was done the tech talked to me and told me whoever did the previous alignment screwed up . He told me they never took into consideration the suspension lift

He said there was very little caster and this caused the bump steer . He told me the truck drives so much better and regained better steering input . When I drove it home it felt so much better than before

 

Do this.

 

I agree 100% with what he said. Your caster was very low. I'm impressed that he took the time to keep camber as close as he did while getting your caster back. What a lot of techs will do is focus on toe because that is what causes tire wear that brings people back.

 

Sounds like you have a Firestone (or at least a tech working there) that knows how to work with your truck and it's modifications. I haven't been so lucky in my neck of the woods, though some TW members swear by one Firestone that's about an hour + drive for me. But man the 2 that are near me are bad.

Got a place called RPM Garage literally walking distance from my house that works primarily on 4x4 Toyotas (always have several Landcruisers, Tacomas and T4Rs parked around it) and they do a great job, so despite my lifetime package with Firestone I just take it to RPM instead.

 

Waiting.

 

I wanted to explain how caster influenced the pull, as in zero caster feeling little and caster that drives the toe angle INTO the ground seeming like it would have the most pull. But I’ve lost the desire.

 

Not really sure how that

Haaaaaaa, you really know absolutely nothing. Now you are claiming that caster drives toe? Please, please, please tell me how that happens. Let me get this straight, you are going to tell us that toe causes pull? I am waiting on that. You didn't lose your desire, you got called out for not knowing what you are talking about and are trying to play it off with memes and fatigue? That is too much! You are by far the funniest guy on this site!

 

All signs are pointing to you bruh. You’re indicating with your posts as well. When you drive toe into the ground it influences how hard you pull back to the center. Caster, camber and toe affect each other. Show us your math (as you’ve already been called out) and show us your work.


We’re still waiting.

This is where I do it. Where’s yours?

 

Good advice here, I’m traveling far this July as well and need to check my alignment now that I’m hitting 30k with some rocky offroad miles on it.

My question is not too far off topic... have you posted a trip report about your plans, and does it involve any off road miles? (Curious about the trip too)... but if so, will that shop recheck their work for a good discount when you get back? I found a local shop that offers a free recheck and I was able to talk them into doing it after my last long roadtrip.

 

What are you even talking about with this? Just use "physics" and "math" to explain your position like you keep saying that you can do.

 

I did support my statements with basic physics forces and directions that I thought anyone could understand.

As I and others have stated all along... yes CASTER does affect a pull. We're arguing against your point when you say CAMBER does NOT affect pull at all, when in fact it does. Granted not as severely as caster. Caster and Camber will both cause a pull!

I guess 20 yrs in the biz, running a million dollar service shop, fixing all ride issues for various local dealers like Porsche, Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes and setting up some track day race cars = "clearly I don't know what I'm talking about". Mr. Trotter? .... Mr. Trotter!... The state would like to dismiss all charges.

 

He's mostly right though. Normally you compensate for crown by giving the passenger side a little extra caster because caster has zero impact on tire wear in those smaller increments. I've done probably a couple thousand alignments and the only time I adjusted it via camber is on a McPherson strut setup where the adjuster is at the spindle-strut bolts (i.e. fixed lower arm). If you have a double wishbone or McPherson with an adjustable lower arm, it's almost always better to do it through caster.

 

Dude what are you on? Camber pulls toward the side that is more positive, caster pulls toward the side that is more negative, and toe never causes pull.

If you're going to be a dick, at least be funny or be right.