Philadelphia Police violate rights of open carrier at gunpoint

It has been YEARS since I've seen either of those words on a police car...

 

Guess I haven't noticed since I go about my business and life in legal fashion and not been involved in anything that I would be in any position to notice it isn't used anymore. But that would make sense based upon the current concept of guilty first then innocence being proven.

 

I don't need to apply for a permit to carry concealed or to OC but that's besides the point. From your statement that I quoted, I'm just wondering what your take is on the meaning of 'right to keep and bear arms' is.

 

I'm getting the feeling that not everyone is going to agree on this one. Having one's civil rights violated is one thing. seating a jury that agrees and awards damages is another thing all together. potential jurors in Philly will likely have a different take on events than those in the Poconos.

 

I actually got into a discussion much like this one and that's when I started looking. I also subscribe to the the "Just don't draw attention to yourself and life will go on" technique...I haven't ever garnered attention from police that I didn't deserve.

 

Then I stand corrected about the stop- but it doesnt change the main point I was making: whether the cop was right to stop you or not, if you dont cooperate, you are ASKING for trouble. You can't win that argument if you're dead.
So when the cops stop you for open carry and you tell them you're not doing anything wrong and will not stand around and indulge their bullshit, and you catch lead from a roided-up, low IQ dickhead who doesnt know the laws, who're you gunna complain to? God? The other people in heavan who had their rights violated? The ACLU might win a nice settlement for your family, but you will be way too dead to know the difference, so is it really worth it? Just do as the cop says, and when he is done doing his thing, calmly and politely explain that you have a permit. He will realize that you're doing nothing wrong and you'll be on your way.

Incidentally, when I was still in college I got pulled over A LOT (over-zealous traffic enforcement and numerous DUI checkpoints around campus) and I always told the officers I had a gun in the car. I was NEVER removed from the vehicle, never hassled, never questioned, nothing.

 

Well hopefully you will live your entire life still not having an experience that would let you think that way.

I have a friend that no longer has his 7 year old niece and could very well could have had he been carrying. States like yours and mine (most counties) want to keep the trained civilians un-armed while criminals still do what they will always do.

Once again, I hope you have a live without a similar experience.

I would love to see statistics of how many times a licensed CCW holder were involved in crime - other than ones like the one 'illustrated' in the first post.

 

I would like to also see how many open carry people get mugged, robbed, or generally fucked with. I think it would be quite low. I would also love to hear the number of stores that were robbed when an open carry guy was in eyesight!!

 

In my mind an open carry is a bill board to bad guys that the 'heat' is prowling. Not a bad condition in my mind!

 

it stopped armed robbery in GA... http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw

Kennesaw is also the city that has a mandatory gun ownership law....

 

+2 on both counts.....(knocks on wood for the 2nd count)

 

1) Didn't hear the cop's gun go off so he must have been cooperating but the cop didn't wanna hear anything the dude was calmly trying to ask and inform him about.

2)no argument there.

3) Really lucky and/or this was back when innocence was presumed first and guilt had to be proven.

 

Everyone seems to be hung up on legalities at this point, but aren't we forgetting that this police officer pulled his gun on someone that had a HOLSTERED weapon. He felt threatened enough to pull his service pistol on a man that was carrying in plain view in a proper holster (i'm assuming), and not exercise enough restraint and discipline to at least approach the guy and ask to see his license before immediately escalating the situation to the possibility of lethal force.

Police officers are VOLUNTEERS. Nobody put a gun to their heads and said they had to get into that line of work. Thats not to say they shouldn't be safe. They are trained and issued gear that will save their life if needs be, but if the situation that an officer might find themselves in is too disconcerting for them to show a reasonable amount of restraint, then they need a new line of work.

Still, no harm no fowl. The officer should probably just be given an unofficial reprimand. Just my opinion.

 

I assume you've had a bad experience? I know guys who demand that drivers step out of the car, secure the weapon for the duration of the traffic stop, etc. but I have never done that. To me, if the guy has a gun and he volunteers the information, its probly an indication that he doesnt intend to use it, therefore no reason to give him a hard time. Just a reminder to keep his hands where they can be seen etc.
When told:
"I have a gun in the car"
My standard response is:
"Ya plannin to shoot me with it?"
"No sir"
No problem

 

Nope. No bad experience & I'd consider it reasonable and standard operating procedure for them to have you out of the car and secured to have look see whether they volunteered info or were questioned first. I actually would expect it to happen that way. I would also expect not to be treated like a fugitive or perp until after they check some shit out first. I would also volunteer that info and always keep hands in sight without having to be told to do so. I also will not argue, it's pointless. Presenting the facts of a situation should not be grounds for resisting or not obeying or obstructing either, provided it is presented in a courteous fashion. I will act how I want to be treated - with respect, courteousness & respect....yes, I said respect twice. They do deserve our respect for the job they do...in the proper fashion.

 

And you won't always get that respect and courteousness in return... But better to be talked down to and hassled, and take it quietly, than to return the disrespect and get ur ass kicked. IMHO

 

DUH!

 

Lets be real!! Ok.? That guy knew exactly what he was doing when he decided to carry a gun in public. From the sound of the recording it was not his first time dealing with the police.

Another point. People lie to the Police. He might tell me he has the RIGHT to open carry but he may be lying and be illegally carring with the intent of hurting or even killing someone. Because of that fact I want and need to make sure he is not lying and indeed has the right to carry. As an Officer you owe the public the service. For my saftey and for the saftey of the people around me. When contacting a known armed person you can't let your guard down even a little untill you know the person is no longer armed.

Either way just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should.

Example... It's not illegal to have sex with your sister.. But it doesn't mean you should do it just because you can.


I'm just saying.. As someone with the same TRAINING and thought process I'm all for pointing guns at people with guns.

 

haha thank you. The same people go on marches so they can carry an extra bullet on them.

 

...Yeahhh I think that is Illegal...