Philadelphia Police violate rights of open carrier at gunpoint

SO I am driving through PA doing 55 MPH in A 55MPH zone but get pulled over. Sir(to the LEO) what's the problem? You were doing the speed limit. Yes Sir, thanks. But I am giving you a speeding ticket because you had the potential to do 60MPH. But I was doing 55 sir. Yes I know, but I have the authority to fine you just in case you speed. Step out of the car sir......what the fuc#$%*** don't TAZE ME BRO....ARGHHHHHHHHHHH If the law doesn't back this guy up then there is something wrong here. And I say we all put VIDEO and AUDIO recorders in our cars, hell an I Phone would work. Just look back on the power of Video when it comes to victims rights. If we all had that, both LEO and Civilians both, things would be different. It's not illegal to film things is it??

 

All the officer had to do was ask the man for his permit. If he felt safer pointing his gun at him and taking possesion of his gun so be it. And when Mark gave him is permit that would have been it and done. But no, the cop had to be billy bad ***! know it all. I work with a former cop and he acts the same way this cop is portrayed, a know it all and thinks his king of all (he is a leadman). Hense we get into arguments when he is wrong, I won't do something when it comes back on me and I know its wrong.

 

Well said, I can't stand cops who act like this one did. And say what you will, but the majority of cops I've dealt with do act like that. That leads me to not like them much. Am I prejudging? I guess so, but I'd say cops do that too.

 

This is JUST opinion and my own personal experience. I've had cops lie straight to my face before. I was still as courteous and helpful as I could be, but because of a couple of cops that I've seen in the middle of a flat out lie and because of situations like this thing in philly, I am much less likely to trust one to be reasonable.

Growing up as a kid i was taught to trust the uniform, and now that I'm a grown up law abiding citizen (not so much as a speeding ticket) when I see a cop headed my way I think to myself "Oh great, time to get hassled." It's not right when I come away from an encounter with a cop and am pleasantly surprised by how painless it was to talk to the man for a few minutes.

No offense to any of my LEO friends out there, I'm sure that you're all great guys. I'm just not above the knee jerk reaction of stereotyping a group based upon the actions of a few.

 

Not sure under what circumstances you were lied too, and I'm sure such a scenario is frustrating- but while you may not like being lied to by the cops- it is a cop's right to lie to you. The supreme court established the right of officers to lie to subjects if it is advantagious to an investigation.

Now I have no idea what circumstaces led you to be lied to, or if such behavior was warranted by the officer, but cops lie, much like poker players- it is a bluff and it works (when trying to get info or get someone to give themselves or others up).

 

Growing up in a right to open carry state and now a right to conceal carry I can see both sides of this. Also, I am not a LEO, but I grew up in a house of two LEOs and several friends are. So we talk about all the situations out there. I have also attended way to many funerals for officers that "never saw it coming".

1st- the officers over reacted. They had a RIGHT to stop and talk to this person and do a face to face with this person. They had a right to ask for this man's fire arm to hold for their safety until the encounter was over. However, until he started acting like a threat they had no right to treat him as one.

2nd- The man was an idiot. The first thing anyone (Police, lawyers, judges, NRA, etc) says to you is to obey the police.... even if they are COMPLETELY wrong. Obey them first and then fight the battle with lawyers and supervisors later. Otherwise you are likely to get shot.

In Arizona you do see people walking the streets open carrying, I have done it on occasion. So the big city argument is unjust, it is part of basic firearm training for police offices.

Mainly I CC, but sometimes the situation does not allow for it. My open carry is mainly a Safepacker, but not always.

This guy is looking to get his name in the headlines and ultimately a Supreme Court case. However he is giving police and gun owners a bad name. This is a no win for all parties involved.

IMHO

 

Couldn't agree more!

 

He has the audio recorder running anytime he steps outside with his gun OC? What a bored, idiotic douche. Yes, you can legally OC but as most of you said on here - it doesn't mean you're not going to get attention. I'm all for legal carry. But cover it up. I loved the example of walking through the ghetto with money hanging out of your pockets and a shirt that says "rob me". Perfect example of OC IMO.

 

Ok...first off Government has absolutely no Rights....they have Privileges and only those the people allow them to have...

What law did the cop think the man was violating to be able to forcibly detain him? Because its 100% legal to walk the streets of Philly with a handgun or a long gun for that matter...

as for him having the right to ask him....he can ask anything he wants doesnt mean the man had to answer him....they can ask to hold your wife or your child etc doesnt mean youre obliged to comply with that....

 

This is the mentality the guy in philly had. The fact is, in the moment - you are better off to just comply with the dumbass cop who has a gun pointed at you. If you really thought he was going to harm you in some way on the side of what appeared to be a busy street in the middle of broad day light once he had your gun - probably best to take your chances and pull your weapon and see what happens.

Otherwise, just comply and hope he gets his once you file a complaint.

You can try to be a vigilante and "educate" the cop when he's clearly already worked up. But that's a good way to get shot. Regardless of what punishment the cop gets later, you still got shot.

 

not saying im gonna debate on the side of the road im just saying that in theory how its supposed to be

 

^^ Agreed. But not in our country as it sits today it seems.

 

im just glad Fiorino did what he did....only one way to change things

 

PPD Rules!

 

Thankyou. And i love your location! What part of killadelphila are you from? Oh, I'm pro gun and a card carrying member of the NRA. But this nice person has to remember that Philly did not have open carry for decades or ever and we lost alot of officers in a city where 1+ people get killed a day. Maybe he should take a stroll around north-central or west philly. So safety first so we all can go home at the end of the shift.

 

I was a police officer and grew up in Philly. Philly has always had high crime areas and aggressive policing. I'm not condoning the officer's methods but when you see someone wearing a weapon in a city with high crime, there are consequences. Common sense might dictate concealing it.

 

You really need to stop drinking the NRA koolaid and read the case law. CC and OC is not a second amendment right. What Scotus said is you have a right to keep a gun in your home for protection. The rest is subject to reasonable regulation.

And since we don't know what the police knew - the guy looked like a suspect they were looking for; a crime had just been commited etc,; it is unlikely a judge or jury would ever side with him vs the police in this case.

You cannot legislate stupidity. I've seen guys open carrying that were so out of shape that pretty much anyone could disarm him with little effort.

 

hogwash...they havent addressed the question directly because they havent been asked to yet...

Open Carry is a right....this is what heller said

one would reason that some govt buildings would be off limits...but i dont believe all can be i think the courts will rule only court rooms and jails/prisons etc are off limits govt building wise(to protect the security of the court and their rulings) because the most fundamental purpose of the government is to protect civil rights not to infringe upon them....the government cant really declare itself off limits when they have a political trust with the people that they are not to violate

 

ACTUALLY IT IS! Incest is illegal in the USA.

As for open carry look at it from a criminal's view. You have 3 identical people. You know they each have 10,000 dollars on them. You know 2 of them have guns. One is open carrying, the other is concealed, and the third man has no gun. Even a criminal believes in self preservation. So he will avoid the man with the gun on his hip because he KNOWS it is there. If he chooses the man who has one concealed he still has the jump on him because the criminal has his gun already drawn.

As for the tape recorder. If you hang out on any site that gives tips on OCing, one of the tools they tell you to have is a tape recorder. Think of it like this, do you lock your doors, activate your alarm, and yet you still pay your insurance? Most people do. Its like the motto I try to live my life by: Hope, pray, and try for the best, prepare for the worst.