Pinal County Sheriff's deputy shot in desert confrontation

x2 and should be stripped of all their rights so they can feel "safe"

 

As a general principle, citizens who are minding their own business are not obligated to "show their papers" to police. In fact, there is no law requiring citizens to carry identification of any kind except of course the new AZ law for Hispanics

Nonetheless, carrying an ID is generally required if you’re driving a vehicle or a passenger on a commercial airline. These requirements have been upheld on the premise that individuals who prefer not to carry ID can choose not to drive or fly.

24 States have stop and identify laws. They ALL require 'REASONABLE SUSPICION"

Alabama Ala. Code §15-5-30
Arizona Ari. Rev. Stat. Tit. 13, §2412 (enacted 2005)
Arkansas Ark. Code Ann. §5-71-213(a)(1)
Colorado Colo. Rev. Stat. §16-3-101(1)
Delaware Del. Code Ann., Tit. 11, §§1902, 1321(6)
Florida Fla. Stat. §856.021(2)
Georgia Ga. Code Ann. §16-11-36(b) (loitering statute)
Illinois Ill. Comp. Stat., ch. 725, §5/107-14
Indiana Indiana Code §34-28-5-3.5
Kansas Kan. Stat. Ann. §22-2402(1)
Louisiana La. Code Crim. Proc. Ann., Art. 215.1(A)
Missouri Mo. Rev. Stat. §84.710(2)
Montana Mont. Code Ann. §46-5-401
Nebraska Neb. Rev. Stat. §29-829
Nevada Nev. Rev. Stat. §171.123
New Hampshire N. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. §594:2
New Mexico N. M. Stat. Ann. §30-22-3
New York N. Y. Crim. Proc. Law (CPL) §140.50 (1)
North Dakota N.D. Cent. Code §29-29-21 (PDF)
Ohio Ohio Rev. Code §2921.29 (enacted 2006)
Rhode Island R. I. Gen. Laws §12-7-1
Utah Utah Code Ann. §77-7-15
Vermont Vt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 24, §1983
Wisconsin Wis. Stat. §968.2

 

So what was the probable cause here? http://www.azfamily.com/news/91769419.html

 

In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to disclose their identity to police when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. Commonly known as "stop-and-identify" statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

Key words "REASONABLE SUSPICION CRIMINAL ACTIVITY MAY BE TAKING PLACE."

 

You appear to have good values and ethics Tigerfan. I have never seen otherwise from you. I won't judge anyone without both sides of the story either but such incidents are neither uncommon before this law and won't be uncommon afterwards either.

I just don't understand how this law is supposed to stop the flow of illegals.
Like I said in other posts, I think sealing the entire Border would go a whole lot more for the illegal problem than checking for proof of citizenship.

Really if you stop someone and they have a valid DL why go further? If they have a phony driver license they can surely provide phony passport or Birth Certificate no?

Am I mistaken? If so please enlighten me. I am sincere with my question.

 

No. Not trying to argue. Just have some questions and you seem to be on it better than most.

 

I hear and appreciate you Tigerfan.

Just to recap,

The trucker was not pulled over he stopped at a commercial weigh station for routine check.

He had valid commercial ID as in Commercial DL.

A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) returned 3TV’s calls after researching the incident and she said this was standard operating procedure.
The agents needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone's birth certificate. She also said this has nothing to do with the proposed bill or racial profiling.

Remember, this guy is an American natural born. He had to show his Birth Certificate.

I guess my whole problem with this is that in Arizona, Hispanic will have to carry their papers because the Drivers License won't be enough for them.

Regardless of what side of the argument we are on this the fact remains that for "some" AMERICANS the rules have changed.

 

I'm not sure if that is true, I believe a drivers license is actually a valid form of ID

here are some credible internet sites to look up info on. The PEW website actually has a bunch of statistics and polls in it. Many of them are interesting

one of them sums up the bill in case you don't want to read 16 pages

Summary of SB 1070
http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/ariz_SB1070_summary.pdf?docID=4761

Hispanics and Arizona’s New Immigration Law: Pew Hispanic Center
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1579/ar...et-hispanic-population-opinion-discrimination

v This article says that a drivers license is valid ID
http://azstarnet.com/article_a9006f6b-f9b6-59db-87b4-d54a09b4b786.html

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20100429/US.Immigration.Enforcement/


EDIT:these articles are from last week, I'm not sure if Jan B made changes regarding those points

 

I concur. It should be enough is all I am saying. So what happened here? http://www.azfamily.com/news/91769419.html

 

Like tiger said, I'd like to hear what the police had to say. But IMHO, there was no reason to handcuff him. I think it could have been a police officer who was under-trained or just made a mistake.

I think it's stupid how the media and protesters are going to make it look like SB 1070 is going to make this kind of stuff happen all the time. While many police officers do try very hard to be a perfect model LIO, sometimes they make a mistake. and to me, it seems like this was just an example of one of those mistakes.

But I don't think this guy would have been on the news if he was asian or african american....just sayin

 

Look, I agree with you. Maybe this won't happen all the time. Of course not. But really..how many times does it have to happen for it to become unacceptable? As far as I am concerned..once is to many...but that is just my opinion.
As far as hearing what the police officer said...QUOTE A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)... after researching the incident said this was standard operating procedure.
The agents needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone's birth certificate. She also said this has nothing to do with the proposed bill or racial profiling"?.

Regardless of what you or I may think or predict may happen in the future...at least I KNOW and can GUARANTEE that this law doesn't do ANYTHING to STOP OR SLOW Illegal Aliens from getting in to the country. It WILL however force real AMERICANS that are of Hispanic Origin to have to go the extra mile by providing additional documentation to PROVE they are American. That is just wrong.

The argument that it is a small inconvenience goes against what is to be AMERICAN. If it was just a matter of showing a Drivers License NO PROBLEM!!!! But to require a specific race to provide additional documentation is just not right. Lets not kid ourselves, like everyone here is so quick to point out, it's illegals coming across the border from Mexico. Mostly Mexicans. So the target race is what???? Bingo...Hispanics.

Look, my gripe is simple, for all the talk about LEO's getting as many tools as possible to do their job, (which I TOTALLY SUPPORT) I can personally attest to the fact that for all the GOOD PROFESSIONAL and ETHICAL LEO'S out there...there are an equal number of BAD or UNPROFESSIONAL or just plain UNQUALIFIED LEO'S that slipped through the cracks or that just shouldn't qualify to wear the badge.

My job, (Fraud Investigations,, SIU) requires that I travel throughout EVERY SINGLE STATE IN THE UNION on the mainland and offshore, in addition to several overseas Countries. I have personally experienced first hand, both Qualified and Unqualified LEO's.
Thankfully, I have never had to be detained or arrested and I have always been able to diffuse a tense situation when it presented itself. I carry my original receipts for all my gear, Ladder, Tools, lasers, licenses, Permits, etc... (By the way, I do carry a Firearm legally and ALWAYS let the LEO know this immediately) There have been quite a few times when I swore to myself NEVER AGAIN will I drive or take an assignment in this State or that County. I am not Hispanic and don't look Hispanic..but I have been profiled many times because of my License Plate..(Florida) or because of the Vehicle, (Benz or Lexus in addition to Tacoma)

I can unquestionably confirm that I have NEVER been MORE HARASSED than in Arizona, Alabama, Texas or Michigan. Most of the times they have actually told me FLAT OUT that the reason they stopped me was because they noticed that I had Florida Plates and supposedly "they had a BOLO for a similar vehicle that was involved in an armed robbery that fit my description". Come On..Really??? Really???

Arizona and Alabama are the ABSOLUTE WORST when it comes to the roadside hoops that I had to jump through in order to extricate myself from some very unpleasant situations that have taken up serious time. By the way all the bogus stops...I was allowed to continue with no ticket or warning but at what a cost of what I consider to be an invasion of privacy and unwarranted search. I always let them search and I don't argue.
Yes Sir.
Absolutely Officer.
No problem Officer.
Whatever you need from me officer.

So my point is that even though profiling is NOT LEGAL..It happens ALL THE TIME. I comply when I am subjected to it because like many of you....I would rather just cooperate so I can get on my merry way and not have to take the ride downtown. So far, this has always worked for me, but man...I am a TAXPAYING AMERICAN...This just ain't right. Having my rights trampled for convenience sake is just wrong. Especially when it's just for the LEO's Ego.


But really, can someone tell me how this AZ law will stop the illegals from getting in?
IMHO unless the Borders are sealed...Everything else is just more crap that we Americans have to put up with.

 

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

Teddy was a progressive but even he got this right back then.

 

AMEN! I think I've made my views known well enough here. Packerfan is on teh mark with this one. You can effect change by soliciting your individual representatives. I encourage each of you to write or call your representatives and let them know which side of the issue you stand for. Just bitching about it does nothing.