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Please help me diagnose!

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by STLTaco09, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Sep 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM
    #1
    STLTaco09

    STLTaco09 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    5100's all around, fronts at 1.75". TSB leaf pack + Toytec TSB AAL
    Here is a summary of my lift, wheels, and tires:

    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/suspension/44315-installed-5100s-1-75-tsb-aal.html

    My Issue: I am experiencing steering wheel wobble and vibrations between speeds of 50mph and 70mph. I've had the tires on with the lift for probably 3,500 miles.

    What I've done to troubleshoot: I've had the tires rebalanced 3 separate times, each time the shop says they are balancing out OK. This shop is among the shops listed in the "locate a GSP9700" link (http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm) so I'm certain that is what they are using. After I get the truck back after each balance, it rides slightly different, somewhat better than the time before. The last time I've had them balanced, it was as good as it had been yet. I rotated the tires about 500 miles after this balance, and wobble/vibration got worse, and slightly changed (different mph than before that it is noticed).

    After the shop questioning the fact that I don't have hub centering rings, I bought a set from 1010tires.com (108mm OD, 106.8mm ID) to prove that it isn't the wheels or the method by which they're centered on the hub. They fit fine, no change in ride, which tells me I have the right lug nuts (Gorilla spline drive, looks a lot like this: http://www.sfxperformance.com/parts/GOR68631N.htm)


    Details/Oddities:
    Typically the vibration/wobble is around 57mph - 63mph. However it ranges between 50 and upper 60s at times, never consistent through the whole range. The strange part is that it never seems consistent. I drive the same 11 miles to and from work each day, granted some of it doesn't allow me to get up to speeds where this issue is noticed, the vibration is never the same, sometimes it's NONEXISTENT! This is the part that makes me question if it is the tires. I can be on the highway going 63mph (estimated by speedo) and be getting a wobble, then either change lanes or run down the highway long enough and the wobble changes, possibly goes away, all going roughly the same speed.

    I had these moto metal rims on stock Dueller H/T tires, no wobble at all. I don't think its an issue with the rims. I did, however add the lift with new tires at the same time, so I'm wondering if alignment is off which would cause this?

    Possible solutions not yet explored: Are UCAs the answer? Am I feeling the aggressive tread of the larger diameter A/T Revos on aftermarket wheels, thus allowing me to "feel more of the road"? Are one or more of the tires out of round?

    I feel like a jackass going back to the tire shop complaining of this if what I am experiencing is because of my lift, stock UCAs, something of that nature. They're always helpful and willing to hear me out, so I don't want to be that guy throwing a fit about something without even knowing what he's talking about. I'll go back if I have ammo in my pocket to support my case that they aren't balancing well enough, or if I do in fact have a set of tires.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Sep 8, 2009 at 5:15 PM
    #2
    jfr02

    jfr02 Well-Known Member

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    there is someone on hear that had the same issue.he found 2 or 3 transmission mount bolts fell out check them just to make sure.the mount is at the tail end of the trans
     
  3. Sep 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM
    #3
    STLTaco09

    STLTaco09 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    5100's all around, fronts at 1.75". TSB leaf pack + Toytec TSB AAL
    Interesting, I'll give it a look-see.

    And just to clarify the strange part, there are literally times when I'm driving in the problematic range of speed and I'm thinking "hmm, this seems totally fine. I dont notice any issues at all.". Then the next thing you know, its back!
     
  4. Sep 8, 2009 at 5:21 PM
    #4
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Sounds like the tires arent propperly ballanced.
     
  5. Sep 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM
    #5
    LBtaco

    LBtaco Thread killer

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    make sure to properly torque your lugs, 83ftlb. do it by hand, not a torque stick and air ratchet. supposedly you can warp your rotors by overtightening. I went through all this, rebalance and alignment 4 times (the truck drove different each time).
    what finally helped was replacing the rotors and not letting anyone else torque my wheels on. it drives pretty smooth now, but i still feel a slight vibration at 55mph, but i think its just the tires or road.
    maybe pull off a rotor and check if its warped? You would probly feel pulsating in the brake pedal tho.

    good luck
     
  6. Sep 8, 2009 at 5:27 PM
    #6
    STLTaco09

    STLTaco09 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    5100's all around, fronts at 1.75". TSB leaf pack + Toytec TSB AAL
    Thanks for the heads up on this. I bought a torque wrench just because of hearing that damage can be done by over torquing. When I rotated my tires, and even installed the hub centric rings, I've torqued my lug nuts to right at 85ft lbs.

    I also do not feel any pulsing when breaking at all. That part is smooth as glass.
     
  7. Sep 8, 2009 at 6:30 PM
    #7
    madtacoma

    madtacoma Member

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    There is a couple other things you should look at: first check and make sure your tie-rods dont have any play in them, do this by jacking up the front end and grab the front of the tire and the back of the tire and push and pull back and forth as if you were trying to turn the wheel. if there is play take it to get it checked out. second find a shop that has a wheel balancer with "road force balancing" this will tell you if your tire is out of round and same with the rim. That way they can counter balance the tire with the rim. It works wonders. the belts in the tires may also be shifting.
     
  8. Sep 8, 2009 at 6:55 PM
    #8
    cjimenRR

    cjimenRR Be Good or Be Good At It

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    do you have the original tires/wheels? If so I would suggest putting them back on and driving to verify it really is a tire/balancing issue. If the vibration persist then its an issue with the drivetrain (i.e. driveshaft angle, driveshaft needs balancing, u-joints worn/lacking grease, etc)
     
  9. Sep 9, 2009 at 4:47 AM
    #9
    STLTaco09

    STLTaco09 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    5100's all around, fronts at 1.75". TSB leaf pack + Toytec TSB AAL
    I don't have the original tires/wheels anymore.

    I suppose it could be a driveshaft angle issue, but I dont get vibes (just fixed MINOR take off shudder) from the lift. I would think it would be more consistent if it were a drive shaft angle issue.

    Truck has 11,000 miles on it, so I hope nothing is worn either. I could always regrease though.
     
  10. Sep 9, 2009 at 5:44 AM
    #10
    Chazmanian

    Chazmanian Well-Known Member

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    I will be watching this thread closely as I have a slight issue with my 09' as well.

    At 40-50 MPH I get just a tad of steering wheel wobble. I have had the tires blanced twice and aligned twice. I also have Moto Metals but I'm running 285 KM2's.

    At any speed but 40-50-Ish there is no wobble and the truck drives smooth as silk.

    soon as it hits 40? There is a slight wobble in the wheel. The wobble isnt strong enough to actually make the wheel move unless you take your hands off the wheel. If you simply hold the wheel? No wobble but you can feel a slight almost pulsating feeling.....

    The Mgr at discount tire drove the truck and came back telling me he hasnt ever felt a vehicle with KM2's drive so good. I told him that wheel wobble through the steering at 40 MPH was not acceptable. He asked if i wanted to swap my KM2's for a set of BFG AT's. I said no....I want the KM2's balanced correctly. He said that they wasnt anything more they could do. My next move is to watch them on the balance machine next week...Locate the offensive out of round tire by eyeball and demand it be replaced.

    Is this what you have as well?
     
  11. Sep 9, 2009 at 5:57 AM
    #11
    STLTaco09

    STLTaco09 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    5100's all around, fronts at 1.75". TSB leaf pack + Toytec TSB AAL
    Mine is similar yes, as in the wheels hardly moves at all if my hand is on it. Take it off, and it seems like it shakes 1/4" in each direction side to side. But even with my hand on the wheel, there is a good bit of pulsating that I can feel. My speeds are a bit different, as mentioned in my original post though.

    I've never dealt with a balance machine, so I dont know if I'd be able to spot an out of round tire, however this seems like a good approach. Any tips on this matter?

    I made the shop take it for a ride before I picked my truck up after the last rebalance just to make sure issues were better if not solved. They said there was a slight wobble, but that it was probably just the A/T tread that we're feeling.

    I guess my next option is to take him for a ride, and discuss the issue when it happens. Then I'll try to watch them balance the tires.
     
  12. Sep 9, 2009 at 5:57 AM
    #12
    Yesterdayz

    Yesterdayz Well-Known Member

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    Same issue here, brought back to the dealer twice. truck has 900 miles on it, this should not happen on a new vehicle. Very frustrating.
     
  13. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:03 AM
    #13
    Chazmanian

    Chazmanian Well-Known Member

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    I have been thinking as well that a few weeks ago when I had the OEM wheels rotated the tire shop torqued one on so tight it busted a lug nut. I had the dealer replace the stud under warranty...I should have had that rotor checked at that point.

    I wonder if I have a warped rotor?

    My wobble is a slight pulsating feeling.....

    Think I'm gonna go get it checked out.
     
  14. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:16 AM
    #14
    wiscdave

    wiscdave Lets Do It!

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    Past ride - 3" OME 885s&Shocks/ TSB 1.5AAL/ AX184 Rims 285 Firestone destination ATs/ 2 Shallow mount P310s in Supercrew Box - Punch 601s, Beefed up Hunter Brush guard, Tint, Fog light mod, AFE Drop in, AC and Fog light mods, scangauge
    Try rotating the tires to see if you can isolate the one bad one? If its not the tires or rims, go as suggested above to steering components and brakes. Good luck
     
  15. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:34 AM
    #15
    David Tarantino

    David Tarantino Well-Known Member

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    Question?? are you feeling this wobble in the brake pedal
    when we balance tires we use a plate that bolts to the
    inside of the wheel that mount it to the balancer
    we use this on all toyota trunks and it has worked fine
    :D
     
  16. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:37 AM
    #16
    Yesterdayz

    Yesterdayz Well-Known Member

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    I only feel it between 60 - 65 mph, Never when braking.
     
  17. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:46 AM
    #17
    David Tarantino

    David Tarantino Well-Known Member

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    it sounds like a balance or a bad tire out of round
    what balancers are used try to fine a road force
    :D
     
  18. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:49 AM
    #18
    Chazmanian

    Chazmanian Well-Known Member

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    We have the same issue or so it sounds....

    I have an appointment at the Toyota dealer at 9:45...

    Maybe they have a balancing machine where they do this whole bolt the wheel to the plate deal?

    I'm heading over to a different discount tire store this AM as well. Maybe I can catch a guy who knows how to work the machine and I can cancel my trip to the dealer.

    I'm honestly wanting to know if I have a bad rotor though as my wheels had been tourqued down so bad at one point that it snapped a stud off the hub!
     
  19. Sep 9, 2009 at 6:54 AM
    #19
    David Tarantino

    David Tarantino Well-Known Member

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    keep us posted on how it works out
    the plate will mount to your wheel though
    your lug holes then lug nuts are used to mount the plate to the wheel
    then but onto to the balancer
    its worked fine for us every time :D
     
  20. Sep 9, 2009 at 9:49 AM
    #20
    STLTaco09

    STLTaco09 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    5100's all around, fronts at 1.75". TSB leaf pack + Toytec TSB AAL
    I don't feel it in my pedal either.

    I think it is a tire issue/balancing issue too. I just don't understand how the problem can be inconsistent at the same speeds. I would think it should happen every time at a given speed if nothing else on the vehicle is changing (other than the road surface).
     
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