Poll: Knowing it might void your engine warranty, would you run an aftermarket air filter?

Toyota's position is they don't have to prove anything; it's in the warranty. "Directly or indirectly..." "...installation of non-genuine Toyota parts"

Under Magnuson-Moss, they have to provide free replacement if they require OEM parts. I invite you to try...

 

They don’t require OEM parts to maintain the overall engine warranty, but state limitations. If it is the aftermarket part that causes the engine to fail, that’s not Toyota’s problem, nor should it be, in my mind. Why would Toyota be on the hook because you installed a faulty Purolator filter? How are they responsible in that case?

I think we are both arguing the same side of this point. No?

 

Are you 100% sure about that? What do you think Toyota means by, "Directly or indirectly..."?
It's ambiguous.

There is what should be, and then there is what Toyota can get away with.

 

I'll put it this way...

I have Redline 75w85 in my diffs...meets the spec.
If my diff grenades under warranty and they have knowledge of this, you think they wouldn't try to use it as an out?

They only way to insure zero potential of a fight over warranty coverage, is to use OEM; and I accept that.

 

I agree. I thing the whole Mag Moss thing deals with situations like if you have a FRAM air filter on your engine, and the oil pump failed because it is simply defective, and destroyed the crankshaft bearings, Toyota cannot say “well you had a FRAM air filter, so your engine warranty is void”. The air filter is unrelated to the failure. They are not allowed to associate the two under law. However, in a different engine failure scenario, if they could prove a defective FRAM air filter caused dirt to enter your engine and scored your pistons, then they are off the hook for that situation. In that case, it’s between you and FRAM.

 

They can deny warranty all day long. Then it's on you to enter into DSP.

 

I guess,the question is whether a fluid is a part. They would have to prove the properly spec’d aftermarket fluid you put in was defective, which might take some serious chemistry. That might be a stretch.

 

A few years back I put a K&N on my gen one. I had good gas mileage records before hand and ran the filter for a year and took it off. My mileage was a little worse with the aftermarket filter. While I am on a lot of dirt roads, I don't race and didn't see any reason to have it on if it is going to drop MPG. To be honest I didn't even think about the warranty issue at the time and my Gen 1 was still under warranty.

 

How many race engines are asked to last 250,000 miles? How many have to even last 10,000? You can't use what's on a purpose built engine as justification for your personal vehicle. A Top Fuel engine can produce 8,000 HP, so by that logic it should OK to run 45 psi of boost on your Taco's supercharger, then?

If a Trophy truck running a K&N or aFe come back after the Baja 1000 with oil as clean as your Tacoma has after 1,000 miles in similar conditions then I'll start listening to how it's a suitable replacement for an OEM type element. Actually running a stock filter in that would probably end up with it being clogged, which in and of itself is telling. They'll tolerate some ingestion not to choke the engine and lose a race. Also the surface area relative to displacement is larger, so they're not running a drop-in sized for the airbox Toyota made either.

Still, no one wants to knowingly ruin blocks so the filters work at least somewhat but they still change the oil and clean the rest of the engine after every race, so you should at least follow their maintenance intervals, too.

 

Well we all know people that blow up their engines from high rpms, from lack of oil changes and neglect
Etc but How many people do you guys know that have had a motor let go because of an air filter not doing its job on an N/A setup? Seriously....if your engine blows cuz of a microscopic piece of dirt, you've got more serious problems, I don't personally know any

 

Wait, everyone's going purists over some retard??

While you guys are are it, with your logic, why mod the suspension and get better tires

 

It takes such a short time to bypass the warrantied mileage these days. I always wait until that time to do anything that strays from stock. I use factory oil filters, etc.

 

Exactly, $20 says everyone here knows that one person who ignores oil changes/Service Interval's and only does them prior to catastrophic failure, especially if they lease (and then the guy who gets the "CPO" is screwed)

Trust me, $50 filter isn't the problem unless ya somehow half ass it, don't close the box right or if it's saturated in oil, don't dry it out a bit

 

In no way am I being rude, but can you provide proof that the oem filter is better then any after market filter?

 

Also, pose the hypothetical to the dealer, say what if I add X,Y and Z. See how they react and plan accordingly

My mom has a Range Rover Sport, Supercharged 5.0. Bought her KN filters and LR doesn't even care, so why would 'Yota?

 

of course they don't care, but if there was a failure, it is possible that they will point at the filter & say because you aren't using an oem filter, we won't honor the warranty.

so if something does happen, remember to put the stock one back in the car.

That is what this amazing thread is all about!

 

And yet, they'd have to prove two filters are at fault, thus where the fun begins

 

point being, that if you change anything that the dealer can use for ammo to not repair your vehicle, remove it before making a claim.

gosh darn rocket science!
lmfao

 

You can most certainly blow an engine from microscopic particles of dirt. No question about that.

I work on diesel generators as part of my job. A particular generator I work on is in a gravel pit. It operates in a dusty environment (passing machinery, blasting, and a rock crusher nearby). The pit has no utility service, so the generator provides power to the rock crusher etc. The owners replaced the air filters on schedule, and later the same day the wing-nut that holds one of the air filters in place came loose and the filter fell off (this is a large 1000hP machine with two large horizontal barrel type air filters). No one noticed because the generator is in a container. We figure the engine ran about 8 hours with no air filter, at which point they noticed the engine exhaust looked very smoky. They shut down the engine, found the missing filter, and called a mechanic to boroscope the engine. The mechanic determined all of the piston liners were badly scored from dust, and the engine needed a top end overhaul. Piston liners, piston rings, and valves were replaced and the pit lost several days of production. All told that loose air filter cost them about $55,000.

The reason I started this whole poll is not because aftermarket filters are known to ruin engines “all the time”, but because we had a case presented on this forum, where we observed Toyota blaming an aftermarket filter for an engine failure and denying warranty based on that. That piqued my curiosity so I read up on the warranties and was interest about what others thought about the issue. That’s all.

 

I've run both K&N and TRD filters in the past and can't tell the difference between them -- I would not be surprised at all if K&N supplies the TRD filters. I went back to the OEM drop-ins because they are easy to just swap out, no need to clean, dry and oil. And no real benefit. Not sure if anyone has done a comparison of OEM to aftermarket drop-ins, but the oil filter comparisons showed OEM was better than Fram, Wix, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the OEM air filters were better quality than the ones you get at Walmart or your local parts store. But, I also wouldn't be worried about using one, or Toyota denying a warranty claim if I did.