Poll: Problem or Problem Free?

All I wanted was a shifter like this that controlled high beams and lights out mode, I shouldn’t have to re index my hand during a turn to on/off my highbeams. And a completely boxed in frame. And I shouldn’t have to remove the swaybar myself.

 

Most of the 4th gen design is done my friend. What is not set in stone is electronics. It takes around six years from concept to production, not two. Even in my world it takes four years lol.
I didn't say they had prototypes, i said they have designs.
Again, Toyota and Ford will only do what they need to do to sell vehicles. If people keep buying the 3rd gens then Toyota will delay the 4th gens. It's that simple. It took a long time for the 3rd gen because people kept buying the 2nd gen in sufficient quantities.
And lastly, the manufacturers pretty much know generally what their competition is doing and when they will be doing it.

 

Yeah, but I told them I wanted the interior to be bigger than the exterior. Lazy bastards didn't do it...

 

True, and that's why issues need to be brought up with Toyota corporate. Can you believe I had an "argument" with a fella on here that insisted ppl who do that are just whiners? That's crazy lol.

The only proof I need that legitimate feedback from individuals to corporate/dealerships works is the number of TSBs out on the 3rd gen. Every manufacturer has issues, Toyota is no exception. Does that mean the 3rd gen is a POS? Certainly not.

I just want access cabs included in the "diff whine" TSB, dammit!!

 

I’m sure they have tons of designs. Most are just basic renderings. While I agree it can take several year to design a vehicle from the ground up and get it into production this wasn’t the case with the 3rd gen Tacoma. They implemented a lot of the design off what they already had with the 2nd gen. Yes they made changes to the frame, body and suspension. The engine wasn’t designed soecifically for this Tacoma, that all saves time and money. The cab dimensions are the same. Along with a lot of other things. This truck wasn’t engineered from a clean slate. I’ll bet it took no more than 3 years. In fact I’ll bet it was 2. Doubtful any one outside of Toyota will every truly know. In fact it’s doubtful even if they make a 4th gen that they won’t carry over most of the design from this generation. Or if 4 runner is going to be a complete redesign that they base the next gen off that platform. They do whatever they can to save money. Electronics won’t be set in stone but usually they carry over stuff from one model to another. Tacoma isn’t specific to itself with its electronics either. With CAN bus it’s alot easier to carry over electronics to different platforms. The BCM’s are a little different internally but a lot of the modules can be carried over and relocated within the vehicle due to different design elements. This doesn’t mean everything is going to be the same however. So do I believe they already have started drafting a 4th gen? Not really. Some elements. Probably 100’s of renderings. Just getting options ready, but as for the actual architectural stuff, my guess is it will be based off the current gen or what they already have in store for the next 4R.

 

Do you know how long it takes just to do a simple part, like for example a side mirror? Do you know how many drawings are required for a side mirror assembly? Now start sourcing supply chain for that mirror. Now negotiate pricing and contracts for those vendors in the supply chain. Now start designing the tooling required to make all the plastic parts (hundreds of drawings) for the side mirror assembly. Now we built a prototype of the side mirror and now we have to test fit it to the truck. Then we have to go make revisions.
I could safely say that the side mirror, from start to finish including tooling and manufacturing process, would require around 200 drawings start to finish. Remember they need 40K of these every month.
I know this process. Most people cannot imagine what it takes to even make a minor revision, like radio knobs, to a mass produced machine.

 

As far as those who mark a small problem as big and those who don’t, wouldn’t you say it would sort of balance out the poll? I know it’s not accurate or a good assumption but it wouldn’t give us a little bit of an idea if we assume that most aren’t lying and those who might fib a little affects both sides of the reporting?

As far as the ranger being king before Tacoma, I had no idea...I’m new to the truck game...great points made though, thanks!

 

I understand the work involved. But you also have to look at how many engineers and different departments and personal they have. They draft and engineer all the designs. Once that’s done they source it all out. Normally they continue to work with the companies they already do business with. Unless of course that vender is maxed out or can’t meet production or if toyota feels the price is too high. Lots of stuff that can impact that all. Anyway, you’re correct in the time involved. They can easily some up with a design, get it produced only to have an issue during a wind test or whatever and have to redesign the whole thing. A lot of stuff is injection molded. The molds aren’t cheap but made relatively quick. Not really anything with retooling. Stuff in the assembly line is what needs retooled. Not saying the vendors who make a lot of their parts don’t need to retool, or get new equipment to meet their demands. Obviously that all plays a role. Cad and other design programs are a lot more sophisticated then they were 20 years ago. While it’s been a while since I messed with any of that stuff the people who do it all day every day, you’d be surprised how quick they can create or change something. They aren’t hand crafting stuff out of clay like they once did. Hell when I was looking at getting black emblems made to sell for our trucks dealing with a company in China they said they would have them designed and ready in less than a week. It was going to take longer to ship them than get the molds made and produce them. I’m just a average joe blow. I bet if Toyota called them and needed them to start production of emblems for a new model and sent over all the designs and specs they would have them ready in just a few days

 

I don’t mean people are necessarily lying about having problems. Just saying a guy who had a small issue might just over look it and it not be reflective in this poll. But you’re correct I’m sure it will balance out with someone who had a few small issues and thinks this truck is the biggest POS they ever owned or was made.


I’m more curious about anyone who bought the truck, had no issues but regrets buying it. Has to be someone here who thought they could afford it but is struggling to make the payment and they regret it or perhaps they bought it and pissed their wife off and now they regret it

 

I agree with both of you.

I've been labeled all sorts of things on this forum--including a whiner-- for being critical of this truck.

The reasons the trucks are the way they are, and I noticed it on day one of visiting here, is because the owners are so willing to put up with a lot of the issues. You have people using paper clips to check transmission fluid, duct taping control arms, 3m gluing hoods, etc. You also have people spending $1k+ for a tune to get the truck operating like it "should". I freely admit that "should" is a matter of opinion, but enough folks bought the ssp and the tune that highlights there is smoke there..even if it's amplified because it's the internet.

Toyota is going to put out what people buy and like. If guys keep buying the truck and like it, don't complain about their issues, or fix them theirselves there is no incentive to make a better truck.

So, while I guess it bothers the enthusiasts to hear critical opinions of their beloved truck, everyone should be glad for it. The people that complain and make a stink for their issues is moving the Tacoma forward. If enough people say, " hey this noise from the diff isn't right". Then they'll fix it. It doesn't bother you? Great! You'll have the option to make it go away because of the "whiners".

Seriously, I am happy as hell for those that love their trucks. But why would you want those that aren't happy to shut up?? It means the next time you go in for a service they may have a new tranny tsb that makes your truck better. Or the next year model is slightly more refined, rugged, etc.

I want people to keep leaning on Toyota, because I want a better Tacoma.

 

Great post. While nobody has labeled me a whiner as far as I am aware, (wouldn't care if they did, I am sometimes!), I have made a thread or two about issues, as well as contributed to them (particularly in regards to vibration/braking issues). Everyone here has actually been very helpful. I fully understand that every vehicle has its quirks, but it doesn't change the fact that people that do have actual issues are understandably frustrated. The last thing I want to do is go into a dealer service center on a Saturday morning to get something fixed on a new truck. Or to be told it's normal and to take a walk. I think what draws many people to this forum other than enthusiasts are because they are seeking information on perceived issues, legit or otherwise.

I do like this truck, but at the same time it hasn't been as fun as it could be. Some days I absolutely hate it. Is any other brand perfect? Absolutely not. But I didn't bring my 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee in for anything other than regular service in 3 years. Same with my wife's Hyundai. And please don't take that as me saying that these are better brands than Toyota because I'm not implying that at all. What I am saying is if people step into territory of issues that they haven't really experienced before in previous vehicles, they may be more inclined to "whine". Or the rear diff may do it for them.

People posting about issues actually made me learn more about vehicles and their parts, in general. It's always nice to see someone lay out an extremely informative response to a problem, mostly in terms of "this isn't an issue because of this this and this reason". Boom, someone likely just learned something. Or, "can confirm you have an issue for this this and this reason". The whiners help other to-be whiners get comfort in knowing someone else had an issue and it was resolved by taking some course of action.

 

Spot on man. I completely agree with you. Some might think I’m whiny because I don’t love my truck either. I mean it does what I want it to do, and I haven’t have an major issues, just a few small things. I do think the low end torque sucks but I can’t be too upset because I did drive it before I bought it. The shifting was terrible but got better after the TSB. Still not the way I feel it should be. I mean I wasn’t able to test drive it in an area where I could get on the throttle either. But working for the auto group at the time where I bought the truck I could of taken it home for the night. For me I knew coming from my loaded F150 was going to be a downgrade. But I was going through a divorce and needed to make cuts. Knew this truck would be able to do what I needed it to do and that it was gonna get better MPG (hasn’t been much better) and have good resale value when I decide to get rid of it. I had a 03’ about 10 years ago and I liked it a lot. But I was also in my young 20’s and didn’t have a house then. I had a few small issue with my F150 too. Nothing crazy, but I miss how smooth that thing drove and shifted. Even with the shit tires that were on it. Also miss the interior room and size. I miss the power the most. Not having the engine revving to almost 6k just get around an old lady in a civic from a stop light or just about any car on the street. People look at me like I’m an asshole just trying to get around them because the motor is screaming.

Of course a lot of people are gonna get butt hurt here when talking about the Tacoma. Hell even other Tacoma owners talk shit about this truck. It has its purpose and is a good fit for some people and their life styles. Just like any vehicle.

I agree with you that people shouldn’t be reglueing their hoods, duct taping their control arms or half of the other crap on here. That isn’t helping Toyota realize their problems or holding them accountable to correct them. But that’s just how some people are. Most of them are the same people calling the dealerships “stealerships”. Makes you wonder how they even managed to knuckling up enough courage to spend 3-4 hours going there and buying a new truck in the first place.


Anyways it’s cool your still here in the threads and want to see a better Tacoma. Honestly if the ranger was out when I got this that’s probably the route I would of went if I went midsize. But after owning a full-size and coming back to a midsize, I’m not so sure I’d return or get another. Whether it be a Tacoma or not.

 

I am surprised by the positive results of this survey so far, after many sleepless nights due to the replaced rear diff that still howled (it's gotten quieter over time) I am starting to like my truck even though the dash board has a rattle that am yet to completely resolve. Anyway my dealer master technician admitted to me that the 3rd generation has been nothing but problems. If it wasn't for the free platinum warranty I would have traded it in for a F150 or tundra.

 

Yeah, well Smitty said I had the differential whine and just didn't notice it because I was not "perceptiive", drank too much, and was too old and my hearing was bad. I told him I was perceptive .

 

If you believe posting on TW will influence Toyota to make the Tacoma "better", all I can say is "good luck with that".

I have learned a lot from both negative and non- negative posts/ threads, but all the negative posting hasn't affected Tacoma sales so far - believe it or don't.

 

If the negative posting on TW causes more people to officially complain and get it "on the books" then it has an effect. If getting the tsb's posted let's someone print it out and hold Toyota accountable instead of getting the run around then it makes a difference.

If the posting on here, in any way, even if it's glacial, starts to chip away at that reputation then it makes a difference. If one person has a more informed test drive and chooses to get a lower trim, different brand, or even buy the truck knowing it has "issues" then it makes a difference.

Regardless, why would Tacoma fans shit on that? All of that should lead to better trucks in the end.

 

Another thing to think about is that people aren't considering how many thousands upon thousands of Tacoma drivers may potentially (and I stress POTENTIALLY) walk into dealers complaining of issues that have never stepped foot onto TW. There's a lot of "vocal minority" referencing on here but surely there are other consumers out there who complain a whole lot but never post on a forum.

 

Posting here won’t do anything. But people should go to the dealers for issues and when they get those surveys also fill them out. I think sales will be effected at some point. I’m sure they already have with the frame issues from the 1st and 2nd gens. Who knows by how much

 

Ok, I get what you're saying.

Carry on soldiers.......