Premium fuel?

Both my 2009 and my 2013 run perfectly fine on 87. I ran one tank of 93 in the 09 and a partial tank in the 13. Saw no difference in MPGs and the butt dyno registered no difference either

 

I'll try again. I lost my last post on this iPhone 6 I'm using with a thumb that's lightening fast and spell presume and correct

Simply the 3.5 V6 in my 2016 Tacoma TRD sport has 11.8:1 compression. Far above the necessary compression to burn premium 93 pump gas. Even with the 10 or 15 % ethanol all year blends of toptier fuel. Owners manual states 87 octane or above. Note or above!!!

Now the same 3.5 V6 ( I believe ) is used in the Lexus or Acura. Forget which exactly. My Tacoma makes 268 hp at 6000 rpm or so and 235 ft /lbs if torque at 4600 rpm and can run on regular 87 octane fuel. The sports car with the same engine makes 331 hp at a much higher rpm and has a different torque curve and requires premium fuel, say 93 octane. It surely can run on 87 octane as the knock sensor will compensate for the LOWER octane with a significant loss of hp.

My question ?? And personal probably ignorant and incorrect theory goes as follows: won't the knock sensor or ECU or some other component recognize higher than 87 octane fuel such as premium 93 and compensate for the HIGHER octane fuel as well in my 3.5 L engine with 11.8 to 1 compression? That compression is certainly high enough to burn premium I'd believe.

Perhaps it's the tuning? The sports car is designed for high rpm speed rather than low end torque and requires premium fuel to achieve peak performance. My Tacoma must be tuned for lower rpm maximum hp and low end torque since trucks are not sports cars and are generally used to haul items ( not ass ) and tow. The bonus being my v6 Tacoma can run safely on regular 87 octane gas and the knock sensor need not compensate. Yes? No?

So can I theoretically change my ECU or whatever to develop 331 hp also? But what would my torque curve be? And at what higher rpm would the rev limiter have to be set at to achieve this?
Would this modification be just plain silly as I'd probably lose the ability the truck was designed for and be forced to shift my manual six speed at much higher rpms through the six gears ??

Back to reality... personally I've used enough 87 octane to get a feel for it. It seems fine. I drive conservatively. No rocket starts or burnouts, no frenzied passing everyone. Usually at or 10 mph above the posted limit. And a steady throttle.

But my choice in fuel is always a premium fuel from a toptier supplier and almost exclusively shell nitro 93 premium. I've noticed a 1 mpg with premium gas. The difference in price is a low of $2.19 at BJ's vs the $3.09 per gallon for the shell nitro 93 premium gas. Worth it? Not really if I'm only gaining 1 mpg more.... BUT:

Shell nitro 93 premium fuel has been tested by independent engineers as well. It's been proven to be the one and only gas with detergent additives to maintain a new engine like brand new over the life of the vehicle. Even one tankful on an older engine will remove 65 % of the built up gunk in injectors and valves, cylinders and pistons. Used from the start it will keep a new engine like brand new.

So from the standpoint of is it worth it? For me- yes. By keeping my engine like new ( that includes regular plus more than regular toyota synthetic oil and filter changes plus other recommended maintenance plus additional transmission, transaxle and driveshafts and differentials fluid changes every 15 to 30,000 miles --- see the threads on lubricating Tacoma u joints ) , I feel that the shell premium 93 octane fuel should be worth the price in terms of less repairs. This is my opinion most of it based on facts.

Still my question. When the manual states use 87 octane OR HIGHER GAS does it mean the engine is capable of usefulness in burning premium fuel like 93 or even 94 octane in a productive and efficient manner?????????????????????

I don't know as yet but expect shell premium nitro 93 contains up to 15 % ethanol as every other gasoline provider does all year round here in the New Milford area of mid to northwestern Connecticut.

Any help from an enlightened engineer with a laymans understandable answer would be greatly appreciated. As well as an answer to my theory regarding using premium fuel exclusively as I do now anyway and retuning my v6 3.5 liter Tacoma to achieve the 331 hp that Acura or Lexus has with its benefits or negative aspects

Long post I know. Wife thinks I ran away from home. But these questions have been on my mind so often.

Additionally. I'll have to find out if that shell nitro 93 premium gas has up to 15% ethanol all year round as others do and where I can find a toptier gas supplier who doesn't use ethanol in their premium or lower octane pump gas.

Thanks for anyone patient enough to read this entire long post. It took me a long time to type it on my iPhone 6 using one thumb. Believe me. But to me these are important questions if not just to understand how things work. Dannyblues

 

Me again. Dannyblues. I live in New Milford Connecticut, about the northwestern side of the state, about one good hour south of western Massachusetts and 90 minutes north of New York City.

Can anyone recommend a gas supplier here nearby that doesn't use an ethanol blend in their pump gas including the premium gas I use now exclusively??

I thought it was federally mandated that ALL fuel suppliers blend up to 15% ethanol in their gas.


I searched for octane rating specifications and found it's a rating by two old style simple engine cylinders that in one gives the RON # and the other the MON #. They then include the ethanol rating that I believe either raises or lowers the final octane rating then add both RON and MON and divide by 2 to get the final produced octane rating. I believe the RON is always higher than the MON and that's why they divide by 2 using if I remember correctly to include and compensate up or down ? with the addition of ethanol to achieve the final actual octane rating displayed at the pump. If you look at the pump you will notice the decal : (RON+MON)~2 above the octane rating. Dannyblues

 

Have you tried puregas.org? It is pretty accurate in my area.

 

Good post.

I suggest reading up on variable valve timing in general; along with engine management and direct-injection, it's is what makes higher static compression ratios possible. The old muscle car rules-of-thumb, do not apply and static compression ratio is a poor indicator of octane requirement these days.

I believe our vehicles could benefit from a proper, refined engine tune and/or premium octane. More so, with a transmission tune.
VVT in general requires lot more tuning to get right.
We have a 'complicated', sweeping valvetrain; a.k.a. VVT-i and VVT-iW(see attached engine pdf).

I'm hopeful that the upcoming Orange Virus tune will be all that.
Here's a link on what they found in a Lexus 2GR-FSE.
https://www.ovtuned.com/blogs/news/orangevirus-tuning-2gr-fse-is350-rc350-calibration-info

 

Thanks for the link. I checked it out and now understand better but not fully how variable valve timing and it's electronic mapping controls function. I can see how this system could cause variables in the actual posted 11:1 compression that as you said isn't the static compression we used to measure in old muscle cars. We've come a long way baby.

I also explored the orange virus on similar 2 GR - FKS engines. But that was on a sport Acura. And using it's tuned sport mode selection. Confusing but I got the general idea

The Toyota PDF you posted I also explored. It did show there that the octane recommendation was for 91 or higher on the 2GR-FKS Tacoma model I'm driving- 2016 V6 TRD. My owners manual states to use 87 octane OR HIGHER! So who's right. With this crazy VVT and more including all those electronic controls right down to the drive by wire gas peddle anything is possible. INCLUDING a retune of my ECU to get the maximum benefit from this engine even at the expense of using 91 or higher fuel which I do now anyway. Thanks. This stuff helped. My mind is swirling and trying to hold onto the information I just gathered but I feel it will leak out of my ears any minute.

This was very helpful. Thanks again Dannyblues

 

Yes and so is that cheap Valero brand fuel we have here in CT. Surprisingly Hess isn't and I believe BP is toptier only on its premium. To qualify for toptier a manufacturer must have the above standard detergents across all its octane levels provided at the pump. As of April 1, Sunoco will be joining the list. Dannyblues

 

What is EO fuel?? Never heard of it nor seen it posted or advertised anywhere. Dannyblues

 

What is EO fuel?? Never heard of it nor seen it posted or advertised anywhere. Dannyblues

That's octane 91 RON but then they compare the same fuel on a separate cylinder to get MON and divide by 2 which in this case gives the posted 87 octane at the pump. Look for the decal: Octane method: (RON + MON)~2. RON is always a bit higher a research number than Mon. So they divide both fuel tests to get the average. In this case RON 91 equals 87 actual pump gas on the pump. Dannyblues

 

I just posted the same but you explained it far better than I. Appreciated. Dannyblues

 

Around here, ethanol free = 91 octane.

 

EO should read E0 or Ethanol Zero.

 

Ethanol Free Fuel, wish l had access to it!

 

You might be able to buy it at a local airport, but it's probably crazy expensive.

 

Lucky guy. None near me here except for 112 octane. That'll make her fly!!!✈️

 

You are probably right and not far from me is two small airports. With those tiny single wing and engine private flyers. But usually their octane is pretty high. Maybe I can make a blend just to try. And you're right probably big bucks per gallon and maybe no off site carrying gas containers. ??? Dannyblues

 

Last time I worked at a general aviation airport was before 9/11, so you might be right. But if they're close by, you could always swing by and ask.

Just keep your eye out for Harrison Ford landing on you.

 

From which gas company? I saw that also on puregas site some 91 and not the higher octane gas they sell. Go figure.

 

Exxon, Conoco, Cenex.

 

I do have a tiny airport nearby with a grass runway but AVGAS is not a good choice for your vehicle, much of it has lead and it also has a different Vapor Pressure due to its need for high altitudes.