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Premium gas = more power

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Bryan07sport, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. Aug 14, 2010 at 9:27 PM
    #41
    j4x4ar3

    j4x4ar3 Well-Known Member

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    93 doesn't give you more power but it does allow you to take advantage of the full power of the engine.. especially under load. When you're towing and you're under heavy load running 87 will cause the engine to knock.. and because the engine has knock sensors it will retard the timing to prevent the knock as much as possible and therefore reduce your power. With 93 it's already formulated to prevent knock so there's no change to the engine timing so when under load you'll notice a big difference off the line and climbing when towing.
     
  2. Aug 14, 2010 at 10:10 PM
    #42
    Isthatahemi

    Isthatahemi Well-Known Member

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    BFG AT's, Weathertechs, Hoppy's brake controller.
    As I found out while towing for hours on end, as my truck kept going into open loop, my guess is that it was knocking slightly, and using feedback to monitor and control it.
     
  3. Aug 15, 2010 at 3:29 AM
    #43
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    That's the theory. Someone checked it with his scanguage and found it only pulled timing, and not a lot, under real heavy load using 87...I think he said climbing a hill towing. In 'normal' operation it ran the same (timing wise) with 87 or 93.

    I've run 93 for several tanks and I honestly can't tell any difference; even MPG was so close it could have easily been air temperature as anything else. I think Toyota wanted it to run regular and so they tuned it accordingly.

    That said, I use 89, 'mid-grade', gas normally just "because". It's usually only $.10 more and I figure I have to give a 10:1 engine something. But I'm not fooling myself.
     
  4. Aug 15, 2010 at 3:31 AM
    #44
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    What is 'open loop'?
     
  5. Aug 15, 2010 at 5:34 AM
    #45
    srojoe

    srojoe Member

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    I'm going to jump in here and say:
    There is no difference in the gasoline regardless in the octane. Notice I said the "gasoline",
    The molecules are no different from one octane rating to another, - in the gasoline one finds at a commercial gas station,
    If you want high octane you can go to an airport and get 100 octane if you are wanting to rebuild your engine soon afterward,
    The fuel flow rate will not change with a throttle setting the same, on the same engine but using different fuel grades, regular vs premium,
    The "chemicals" added to change the octane rating causes the fuel to not combust due to heat/compression to allow cylinder compression to be higher in the premium vs regular fuel,
    The computer in the vehicle is changing (delaying/advancing) the timing of the engine/spark which is most likely where the engine performance differences are found.
    The higher the compression at the time of spark allows the engine to develop different performance characteristics.
    This is why higher performance engines typically have higher compression ratios and require premium fuel - to delay the preignition of the fuel/air mixture and allow the higher compressions to develop - more horsepower.
    Our Tacos, out of the factory, will run at peak performance (what is peak performance anyway - don't let the marketing gurus fool you with language) on the Regular Unleaded or any other fuel you stuff into the tank. Someone above said - do the dyno and let a scientific method determine what is best.
    Premium fuel is a sales gimmick unless you have an engine with very high compression ratios and then you need the preignition prevention of a mid-grade fuel or premium grade fuel.

    My two cents worth.
    Ya'll have a good day and remember - if you like paying the higher premium fuel prices - just do it!
    Take a look at a software/hardware tool that one can use to monitor and see the engine/fuel in real time.
    ProScan software, found at myscantool.com, which uses a device to plug into the OBDII diagnostic plug and transmit that to a computer and display informatin in real time will provide very useful information on almost all the engine components and can tell you fuel use, hp developed, O2 sensor reading air mass flow, you name it.
     
  6. Aug 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM
    #46
    Yoytoda

    Yoytoda The Little Truck That Could

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    How would higher octane make you need a rebuild???
     
  7. Aug 15, 2010 at 10:46 AM
    #47
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Only thing I can think of is, Some Av gas is leaded still. That would be bad for a modern car/truck engine. That being said, I have run 100, and 105 in my SC'ed first genner with great results.
     
  8. Aug 15, 2010 at 10:48 AM
    #48
    Yoytoda

    Yoytoda The Little Truck That Could

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    i thought leaded gas wont hurt a unleaded engine but unleaded is devistating for a leaded engine
     
  9. Aug 15, 2010 at 10:50 AM
    #49
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    IIRC, Leaded will hurt a newer engine.....hell....I cant remember....:eek:
     
  10. Aug 15, 2010 at 10:56 AM
    #50
    Yoytoda

    Yoytoda The Little Truck That Could

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    I googled it. lead wont hurt the engine but the lead clogs the catalytic converter. many race cars use leaded for added octane levels and because of the lead it burns even slower so you can run ridiculous compression on leaded av gas.
     
  11. Aug 15, 2010 at 10:57 AM
    #51
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Ah...Ok....I was thinking it had to do with the cats somehow. Thanks :)
     
  12. Aug 15, 2010 at 11:26 AM
    #52
    Isthatahemi

    Isthatahemi Well-Known Member

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    BFG AT's, Weathertechs, Hoppy's brake controller.
    Open loop is when the ECU is metering fuel, from a pre-set map based on certain environmental conditions, through the no use of feedback from the O2, as opposed to closed loop, which uses the 02 to fine tune mixture, mostly for best emissions, Open loop operation is primarily on startup, WOT, or when a parameter goes outside it's set range. Such as excessive exhaust O2 reading, or knock etc..
    Someone with more tuning knowledge may be able to offer a more thorough explanation,

    A vast over simplification.^^

    When the vehicle is operating in open loop, such as when a knock sensor reads pre-ignition, the engine will pull timing and add fuel to compensate. So if premium prevents pre-ignition, the engine will consume less for a few reasons:
    -Ignition not retarding, which causes a loss of power at that rpm/No need to enrich, to control knock / combustion / exhaust gas temps.
    Holding a higher gear, (because the above factors are controlled) because there is no pre-ignition in the first place.
    When towing at 75+ mph, the difference between each gear at the same speed was approximately 2mpg. At low elevations, if my truck was hunting between 5th and 4th, I fueled up with primo. A higher elevations, lighter loads, I saw zero difference. Low elevations and 80%+ loads, big difference. So If I was getting 11mpg in OD on premium, instead of 9mpg on cheaper fuel, that's a lot cheaper.

    IMG_5040.jpg
    IMG_5039.jpg
    IMG_5038.jpg
     
  13. Aug 17, 2010 at 4:31 AM
    #53
    buddywh1

    buddywh1 Well-Known Member

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    Leaded will kill the catalytic converter. I don't think it will have much if any effect on the engine itself.
     
  14. Aug 17, 2010 at 4:51 AM
    #54
    T@co_Pr3runn3r

    T@co_Pr3runn3r XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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    I think my 4 banger with 75lbs of tire/wheel on each corner thinks it's towing uphill all the time so I will use 91 minimum.....at least so the truck feels better about itself.
     
  15. Aug 17, 2010 at 9:48 PM
    #55
    WilsonTheDog

    WilsonTheDog Kylie's dad

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    ^LOL, a truck with an identity crisis.

    I use 93. Why? Because it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
     
  16. Aug 18, 2010 at 4:19 AM
    #56
    T@co_Pr3runn3r

    T@co_Pr3runn3r XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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    Nah, it knows who it is but has self esteem issues in some situations, lol.
     
  17. Aug 18, 2010 at 6:29 AM
    #57
    Tacoyota

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    octane simplified sorta : octane is a type of gas molecule more resistant to ignition than say heptane or others . Octane rating as a starting point is the ratio of octane molecules in the mix as opposed to the less desireable molecules with 5,6, or 7 molecules in the chain... 8 molecules chained is the standard preffered . Keep in mind "octane rating" is a measurement/formula ,as opposed to "octane" as being 8 gas molecules chained together.....it'll avoid confusion if you try to go "yea but"...explain 108 octane and avgas etc. High octane has the same energy as low octane , its just more resistant to ignition. More resistant to ignition, allows an engine to run more timing and gain power ......sometimes.... its engine dependant / compression dependant. There is another rating for diesel called cetane....tmi nm
     
    TRDSmacker likes this.
  18. Aug 18, 2010 at 7:01 AM
    #58
    hookedontronics

    hookedontronics Well-Known Member

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    i run 91 or 93 all the time. I find i get about 2mpg more with 91 and 3mpg more with 93. However, i do not feel more power (probably because i'm coming from a wrx and this thing is a dog compared to that) i don't mash my throttle i just take it nice and easy all the time. I've got 10kmi and i've only put it to the floor once. This thing is a truck, not a sports car. But your right, 93 is a higher octane and gives more power (in theory anyways).

    I keep track with an app on my iphone and i've been keeping records for the past 4 months (since i bought my taco)
     

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