Question about replacing my 5-speed MT clutch in my 2000 2.4L 2WD base Tacoma

Also I apologize, when I got home from work yesterday I forgot to send the pictures of a concentric slave cylinder and self adjusting pressure plate.

The slave cylinder is circled in red and the telltale adjustment mechanism in blue. Both pictures are of a Ford Ranger/post 1993 Mazda B-Series setup.

As you can see from the surface level picture that pressure plate looks alot thicker and more involved than a "conventional" pressure plate that probably about 95% of automobiles come equip with.

As the disk wears thinner, when you depress the pressure plate it will "unlock" from the sprag type mechanism to allow the mechanism to rotate and ramp up to compensate then upon release it will lock itself into place. As the pressure plate componsates, the metal "flag" contacting the yellow springs will rotate clockwise. In the even of removing and reinstalling the pressure plate after it's be depressed, you have to depress the diaphragm on the fingers then rotate the "flag" counter clockwise to reset the adjustment.

Note that those concentric slaves can vary even as what they are. For example, on some model Ford Focuses the slave cylinder also incorporates the transmission input shaft seal so by replacing the "slave cylinder" you're also replacing the throwout bearing and transmission input seal as one unit.

The second picture is just of the Slave cylinder installed to the transmission

 

If you're curious I guess the last major variation of the clutch system is a Dual Mass flywheel(DMF) which basically incorporates the dampening mechanism into the flywheel itself instead of the friction disk so that it not only helps dampen the shock load of clutch engagement but also dampens the transfer of power pulses from the engine through the transmission and driveline as a whole.

The image is of a DMF setup from what looks like a Volkswagen Tdi. The flywheel has a negative step but more importantly note that the clutch friction disk has no dampening built into it

Typically DMF's are found in applications that have severe power pulses such as a diesel engine or applications where refinement is a big factor.

I'm not personally a fan of DMF setups because you pretty much should be replacing the flywheel with every clutch replacement because they wear out (sometimes faster than the clutch friction) and will cause all kinds of clattering and knocking with the potential of the flywheel exploding and at the least destroying the transmission bellhousing if not much more.

 

A bit time-limited at the moment, so would like to break this into smaller bites that are easier to respond to.

The seal retaining plate issue was me (not understanding how an oil seal actually works to prevent oil from leaking, and not knowing how deep the corrosion goes down into the aluminum material) worrying that if I "sanded" the corrosion off the polished aluminum circular surface into which the seal was/will be pressed, perhaps I might (unintentionally) expand the diameter of the circle used by the seal, at the very place where the corrosion was the worst, which is the place I assumed was where the oil leak had been progressing over a period of years (along 45 degrees of the bore, from bottom to right -- passenger side, when looked at directly from back of engine from about 20 minutes to about 35 minutes), leaving a 45 degree segment of the bore where the new seal might not be able to prevent leaks (my worst fear). I'm thinking that the oil leak of the rear main seal could have been working both ways, thinking that when oil is slowly coming out, moisture and/or air might have been able to be coming in, say depending on variations in crankcase vacuum, or some other reason, to have caused that corrosion (oxidation of the aluminum).

I can see that wet-sanding with very fine grit (say 800 grit) sandpaper (or a gently abrasive scotch brite pad) might be able to remove the corrosion if it is light, and if rubbed for a while, but I just am not certain how that is going to go. I have polished aluminum in the past, successfully, so that's not my problem. But my lack of knowledge as to how an oil seal is actually made (like in theory) throws me way off balance in thinking it through. You suggested that I lay the retainer on glass, something flat to make sure the retainer is lying flat (?) and then clean the bore with a scotch-brite pad? Is the purpose of that to give me a firm hold on the retainer so I can use a finger to move the abrasive around inside the bore to polish the bore where the corrosion needs to be removed? I was planning on just holding it in my hand while sanding. Perhaps I do not understand what you intended.

The seal replacement procedure in the FSM suggests removing the retainer from the block before removing the seal, knocking the seal out using a punch or screwdriver, and then pressing a new seal into the bore, dry. I don't think I will have a problem with that procedure, so long as the new seal will be able to perform its function at the region of the metal where I do sanding to remove corrosion. Haven't done it yet, so don't yet know how I am going to feel about how much aluminum material gets sanded off in making the new polished surface. To my thinking, the seal bore was made with as much precision as the manufacturer could muster (and nothing in this world is perfect), in order to guarantee that the seal WILL SEAL. I simply do not know enough to know to worry, but opt to because of my OCD tendencies, or something else deeply psychological.

I do understand what you accomplish by putting a small dab of RTV at the 90 degree angles or metal-to-metal transition gaps in sealing surfaces. I ran into that problem when I had to think through how to reinstall the timing cover after taking a short cut from the FSM procedure that permitted me to remove the timing cover without first removing the head, which saved me a lot of time (or so I thought). There are two quasi-"head bolts" that run through the front of the cylinder head down through the head gasket and screw into the aluminum of the timing cover. The overhanging head gasket can still be used to seal the top of the timing cover to the head when replaced. However, there are two gaskets that run all the way down under each side of the aluminum timing cover, making an oil seal. Those gaskets are flat to the front of the block. Where they stop at the top of the timing cover, there is a 90 degee meeting of the head gasket with the two gaskets running down the timing cover sides. When I first tried to install a new timing cover (aftermarket YSK), I put a dab of FTV right at that 90 degree junction, to make sure the oil seal would be secure. There is another place where this trick has to be used in my engine, in the head. There are two "semi-circular plugs" made of aluminum that fit into half circles formed into the front of the head to allow access to the bolts that hold on the camshaft sprockets. When you put the "semi-circular" plugs back before installing the valve cover again, you have to put a dab of FTV on the four metal-to-metal junctions where the aluminum of the head meets the aluminum of the plugs.

Another thing you should understand is that I have taken off much of the stuff around the block, including the valve cover, timing cover, and oil pan, so the inner-workings of the engine are exposed to the atmosphere, and my cleaning of remaining sludge from the moving parts. Bottom line: the retainer will have a new seal and then, using FTV, will be reattached to the back end of the block. The place where the retainer comes down and hits the top of the oil pan flange will be sealed and screwed when I reattach the (totally clean and repainted) oil pan.

BTW: That YSK timing cover was purchased from PartSuq, despite the fact that there was 1 remaining cover with a Toyota part number (this is before I had the sightest fear of aftermarket manufacturers). I admit to you that it was done to save money, however in the photo that aluminum casting looked quite smart, and better than the Toyota original, which had a maze of spider-web casting marks all over it. Well, once I had that nice new cover installed and had torqued down all of its bolts, and I tried to put on the harmonic balancer, it did not just "slide on" as the FSM said it should. I had to bang it on using a mallot (yes, now I know that should never be done to those poor thrust bearings). Had a lot of trouble finding the Woodruff key and getting the crank pulley to go down over it. Took all kinds of thinking and trying this and then that until I finally was certain that I had it on correctly. Can you imagine my reaction when I could not turn the engine over with that timing cover installed? I chalked it up to a kind of (in)tolerance build up with the oil pump gears in relation to the timing cover and balancer. The harmonic balancer fits through the pump gears and cause the gears to turn and pump oil. Even with a breaker-bar, the crank pulley bolt would not turn the engine over.

So, PartSuq gave me my money back and shipped the very last Toyota timing cover, so I didn't loose money, only lots of time. The Toyota cover is still waiting for me to install it, which will not happen until I have at least purchased the parts needed to install a new clutch and hopefully a new flywheel, since the few places I have called for that refacing service talked about so widely in clutch replacment threads have little to offer me, so far. Called my local O'Reilly and they never even heard of resurfacing a flywheel?!?! I have total confidence that the new cover will install and the engine will turn over because I reinstalled the original cover and balancer. It would not turn over, at first either. But, then I torqued down all of the bolts, and it did! Even better, the harmonic balancer slipped right on over the Woodruff key like the FSM said it should. I've spent a lot of time and effort just on the timing cover.

That YSK cover is a beautiful specimen of an aluminum casting, but there it sits!

 

I like the idea of a hydraulic TOB, for newer clutches (not my Tacoma). It seems like an advance in clutch technology to me, especially the ones that include the input shaft seal with the hydraulic TOB. That seems simpler for some reason. Yes, there is still a slave cylinder, so that's not eliminated. It is just taking up space inside the bell housing (maybe that's worse since you need to remove the transmission to fix a busted slave cylinder?). A hydraulic line still has to be run down into the bell housing, so that's not gone. What is gone is the lever arm of the fork and its fulcrum, the ball, that moves the TOB into the diaphram spring. Also gone is that gaping opening into the side of the bell housing. Maybe that would provide better weather protection? The idea of a self-adjusting pressure plate also seems to be an advancement in clutch technology, particularly if it can be adjusted back to its original state as you described. Seems to me it will keep the clamping force constant over the life of the abrasive disc. Is that correct, and isn't that better? Now I am thinking about the timing chain "tensioner" that operates in a similar way, it keeps extending as the timing chain continues to stretch (how can a metal chain stretch? But mine did.) with a ratchet action, so the plunger (tensioner) only goes one way, out, just like your pressure plate sprag mechanism.

On its surface, the dual mass flywheel seems to me a worse idea than what came before. Not only because you have to change flywheels every time you change out the clutch disc, but because the flywheel has gone from a single machined heavy disc to an assembly of components, talking to me about it having less reliability. And, since you must change it out at every clutch change out, that could be because of its lower reliability. I am guessing, but it probably costs more than a regular flywheel? So, the big plus of the Dual Mass Flywheel is that it dampens power pulses that could travel throughout the drive train, not just vibrations caused by clutch engagements. How often, and for what reason, do those power pulses occur in an automobile engine? Are they talking about engines like 4 cylinders, where there are only four combustions in the total cycle, so maybe it came about in response to each one of those combustions causing a power pulse that the Dual Mass Flywheel dampens? If that was what they were designed for, then maybe I would vote for them, but I have gotten used to driving my Tacoma and never think of the uneveness of the power strokes, or feel the compressions, proably since they occur so frequently. Maybe I am just unaware, so I would need to ride in one that has it and one that doesn't if I am going to be sold on the idea. Nothing you said should have led me off into this grass. It's all I could think of.

Hey, thanks so much for posting those photos to show me about those two innovations in clutch technology. I'm way ahead now in understanding clutches because of you, and I appreciate your sharing your knowledge.

UPDATE: I am sorry. I reread what you wrote and you said that the advantage of the Dual Mass Flywheel is that it moved the vibration dampening mechanism from the friction disc back to the flywheel. That is different than what I was thinking. I was thinking the dampening was going on at both places, but you specifically pointed to the friction disc and said that it was missing all of those springs (the ones that dampen the clutch engagement vibrations). That's how it deals with both types of vibration causing mechanisms, the clutch engagement vibrations, and other engine power vibrations. I need to do more reading about the Dual Mass Flywheels. Surely, if they are going to make the single solid iron mass flywheel into a complex of parts that both give weight and handle (dampen) all of the vibrations, something that MUST cost more than the original flywheel, they must have had some important improvement in mind to make such a decision.

Oh, and I had forgotten what I quoted, part of which was "and will cause all kinds of clattering and knocking with the potential of the flywheel exploding and at the least destroying the transmission bellhousing if not much more". That's what I was intending on asking you about. WTF?

 

I'll start by sending you a link to Skf's seal hand book which in my opinion has a very good explanation in how exactly a seal works. That can be found specifically on booklet page 10 or Pdf page 11. https://cdn.skfmediahub.skf.com/api...edium/0901d196807662c1_pdf_preview_medium.pdf

I also apologize for the unclear explanation, I was in bed from night shift. The only reason I suggested to lay the retainer flat on glass was to ensure it's flat. They could potentially warp if someone was in there previously and improperly torqued it back on. That corrosion should be corrected but I don't think it's cause for concern. Not to often do seals leak around the outside. It's usually against the rotating shaft.

What I usually do when I have a situation where i'm unsure it will seal and/or I have to reuse a seal that I gingerly removed intact( i've only had to do it twice) i'll usually coat the outside of the seal with anaerobic sealant. Don't do that with rtv as the excess will harden and potentially cause issues like finding it's way to an oil gallery or the oil pump pickup screen plugging them and starving the engine of oil. Anaerobic sealant on the other hand will only harden in the absence of air so the excess will never harden and can be wiped off with ease and any that finds it's way into the engine will be washed away by the engine oil once the engine is running again, leaving only just enough anaerobic sealant between the ribs and pores of the outer diameter of the seal to properly do it's job. As long as you don't have a groove worn into the shaft or any other wear that is able to be felt with a fingernail on the shaft If you do have a groove then short of a crank replacment, the best repair is a repair sleeve. Referred to in that booklet as a "Speedi-Sleeve". If thats not possible then driving the seal into a different depth than it was previously so the sealing lip rides on a fresh surface is good and my last option if none of the above are possible is to remove and unscrew the garter spring and snip a few coils off of it to increase the tension on the sealing lip against the shaft. The danger of that though is that the increased tension could cut into the shaft overtime. Important thing I learned the hard way once is don't get any lube on the static sealing side of the seal. Only the dynamic sealing lip side.

I also read in that handbook I sent you about not touching the sealing lip. That is the first time I ever heard that. I've always applied oil, grease, whatever the pre-lube of choice is directly to the lip with my finger... do with that information as you please.

You are for sure replacing the seal the proper way, me not removing the retainer is a flat rate shortcut that risks nicking the crankshaft surfacing and creating a leak path. So far i've been lucky.

Your timing cover debacle sounds aggravating. Thats good that they sorted you out, alot of companies would either give you the run around or disappear like a ghost. Nevertheless still a big headache i'm sorry you had to go through.Timing chain wear and sludge issues were traditionally caused by inadequate oil. For example the Dexos gen3 oil spec along with the latest API spec have provisions for testing oil for it's ability to prevent timing chain wear which is basically wear around the pins connecting the links which slightly elongates the holes of each pin which over the length of chain provides you with "stretch". Along with reducing Sludge formation which in a perfect scenario that leaves only the oil at fault, is remedied with more/better detergents and oil thats less volatile

I also like hydraulic throwout bearing setups. Aside from cold weather operation I feel like they provide a more direct clutch feel which I like. Ya you have to bleed the clutch hydraulics when you replace them unless you get one that comes pre-bleed but that honestly may not be a bad thing. Most people never flush their clutch fluid so by having to bleed the clutch it'll atleast get changed then.

in regards to protecting the innards of the bell housing from the elements i'd say they're unrelated. On both my F150 and ranger with the internal slave, the line and bleeder just poked out of two holes on the side each the size of a loonie with not boot or anything to offer resistance to the elements where as my 92 Camry has a boot around it's release fork. I guess it just depends on how under budget they were if they include a cover or not.

The self adjustment on the pressure plates I do think is a good idea but i've only ever honestly seen them on Fords and heard they exist on some BMW's. Even in trade school there is no mention of them and when I asked the teacher because I had already worked with one before going to trade school, none of them had ever heard of a self adjusting clutch except of one of my instructors that worked at Mazda because the B-series is a Ford ranger in very light disguise. I guess the cost to benefit ratio from a manufacturing and sales perspective isn't worth it. I don't know.

Your mentioning of maintaining a constant clamp load over the life of the friction disk is correct and that also translates to a consistent pedal feel though the life of the clutch because otherwise the pedal effort increases at the friction disk wears out as a consequence of the pressure plate positioning. To be honest I don't usually notice a difference in pedal feel between a new and old clutch.

In my opinion, unless it's a luxury type vehicle I don't think a dual mass flywheel is worth it. You don't technically have to replace it with every clutch job but you can't machine them typically beyond usually 0.002" which is essentially a final pass cut depth. They have a very finite lifespan and if the halves separate/ the springs wear out it's garbage anyways. I don't see it at all being worth the risk of ever reusing a DMF with a new clutch I've seen quite of few vehicles when the friction disk is plentiful but the DMF comes around causing issues and requiring the transmission to be removed even though the clutch disk has tons of life. When I was in a situation where I owned a car that from the start I was planning to fix for my friend, I looked into a Single mass conversion and was just about sold on it. My only reason for aborting mission and just replacing everything with the same setup was for future serviceability since I was not going to be servicing the vehicle once it left my hands. The clutch friction would of been a fit for another model car, flywheel for specific engine and internal slave modified. If anyone but me went in there not being aware of the conversion it would cause far undue stress and confusion to them. The symptoms of that one failing was the clutch pedal shuddering with any light contact, knocking noise while cracking the engine and idling.

An aftermarket Luk Clutch kit was 550$ and the aftermarket flywheel was 777$ off rockauto in 2017 without shipping included... I can only imagine what it would of cost today... i'm scared to look aha.

Basically the "need" for a dmf over single mass is that the dmf will be heavier and allow more dampening along with not causing issues like constantly oscillating the gears in the transmission back and forth very rapidly, potentially causing damage and allowing a smoother application of power from the power pulses of say a 4cyl diesel engine which would fire every 180* with theoretically no power overlap but very "inconsistent rpms in the sense of a powerful combustion which speeds up the crank followed by significant slowing of the crank due to the high compression it's achieving for the next combustion.

DMF's are also used in some gas engines but usually high compression engines where performance is not the main goal but refinement from noise, harshness and vibration is.

It sounds wild and truthfully it is typically due to running the flywheel hard and well past it's point of showing symptoms. It can happen too on single mass flywheels. My f150 didn't have a slipping clutch but engaged during the final 3/8" of releasing the pedal. Before me though I was told by the previous owner that he "started his landscaping company with it" before upgrading to a dual rear wheel f350 to do the job. I can only imagine the abuse that clutch saw when he was telling me he basically did everything with that truck that he now needs a f350 for... I've never seen a flywheel burnt so blue and with so many heat cracks all around it from centre to edge in my life. I used to drive that truck hard too before going in there because I always planned on replacing the clutch. I'm lucky THAT flywheel didn't explode because with the size and mass of that thing it would of went though the bellhousing, floor panels and probably cut my legs off if it let go. Especially at a high rpm.

 

It'll make more sense when you look into it but for immediate purposes this is a cross section example of a Dual Mass flywheel. Also not how thin the friction contact surface is, thats why they can't be machined really

 

Yeah, you did a good thing telling me about that Dual Mass Flywheel, whether I use one or not. The technology is fascinating to me. I know nothing about how much they cost of if one could be bolted into my Tacoma, but these videos got me thinking that one of them might help with the way the truck performs, feels, sounds, whatever. After all, it's a 4-cylinder engine. . . what better place to use one. Well, sure, a 2-cylinder. . . but a 4, though it runs so fast that things happen in milliseconds, if compared to a V6 or a V8, that innovation must have been made for 4-cylinder engines. With 6-cylinders going off every 180 degrees, that's a whole lot smoother than the way the 4-cylinders operate, don't you think? Here are some videos I found early in the morning, before I got stuck answering on other threads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfCwkAbKtzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRxrajJCLr0
https://youtu.be/P55D-xY31vQ?si=_P-Vylx0S7MEJKQ0

First thing this morning I sought out information about the Dual Mass Flywheels. These were decent ones.

Quick change of subject: TRANSMISSION PHOTOS




I have done NOTHING to clean it up, yet, so that's exactly how it came out of the truck.

I had a bright light aiming directly into the mouth of the bell housing, so the "oil" look doesn't show in the photographs.

I can see that I need to spend time de-rusting the input shaft, but that is normal for me to work with. A lot of stuff was exposed overnight for a couple of months while I was figuring things out, and since we tend to go through dew point every night, rust formed on most of the iron surfaces. All the rust will be gone when the engine has been put back together.

I went into the garage to take the photographs this afternoon, mostly because you had warned me that the gears had to have a way to breathe. I can see two rubber "breathers" on the side of the bell housing, but that's not where the gears are. So far, I do not see the "breather" you were talking about. Perhaps it will pop right out to your eyes?

Anyway, I had a lot of trouble getting Windows 10 to let me rename files, which was needed in order that I could send these photos, so that and the other work on other threads cut my time short in getting back to you. I apologize, but I must go now. Will return soon.

 

Not a worry about not having time to respond, I write some of my responses when I have some down time on night shift. I apologize if I miss anything... I start losing steam fast around 3 AM. Soon i'll be leaving the country with no internet even aha.

Also I figured I should try to provide as much general clutch information that would apply to as many vehicles as possible because you seem quite interested and I feel if I try to provide a broader view then next time you work on something different, you'll know what you're looking at. Using the service manual is always a good idea. Early in my apprentice days I frequently got yelled at for not utilizing the service manual beyond torque specs. I've now wised up and realize it's full value, especially with diagnostics.

Those are good picks for videos, I also subscribe to engineering explained but only every now and then watch his videos. I usually always enjoy them.

Usually the breather for the gear case is off of the highest point like the shifter. In one picture I believe I see what could be the breather but it's odd that I can't find it from the opposite but similar angle. I circled what I think is a breather in green
Some transmissions will just install rubber plugs on the ends of the shift rails as breathers and rarely but possibly so with loose fitting shifters breathe though the shifter. Your transmission may not have a tube at all.

 

After some minor pursing I found a picture of a removed RC62F out of a 3rd gen Tacoma from another thread here surrounding a guy swapping it into his 2nd gen Tacoma. The located of the breather attachment is clearly visible in this imagine and circled in red

 

No internet? Cannot imagine being without, except I once lived a couple of years on Kwajalein, an atoll in the Marshall Islands, and all they had for entertainment was a music library and the Armed Forces Radio Network (i.e. NO TV! NO COMMERCIALS), and I was never happier because I was able to SCUBA dive on sunken shipwrecks every day that the winds were not high. Where you are going, I hope you will be safe.

I see the breather on the RC62F you showed. I don't see anything like that on my W59. Did it work out ok, was it easy, for him to swap into a 2nd Gen? Here are photos of the area where you thought you saw something, so you will be able to check and understand:



When I take the shifter tower off to clean inside it, will I need to replace the gasket, like Toyota normally demands? If so, I guess I had better get my order in.

You are such a gentleman! Thanks for your patient concern that I learn the general ideas, rather than just specifics. Ever since I begain taking personal responsibility over our automobiles (interestingly, starting with the 1994 Celica after some shop changed its clutch and failed to reattach two of the three bolts that tie the motor mount to the engine support bracket -- the two bolts that are put in from the top (there was another one from bottom to the top), requiring they go underneath (maybe) to fasten the nuts. I rackied it up to laziness, but who knows, maybe they were pressed for time like auto techs are today, but either way letting someone else work on your car TODAY is asking for problems. I know they didn't put those bolts back because my wife struck a curb with the right front wheel not long after, causing the engine to separate from the motor mount, letting it drop maybe 4", so when I next drove it, there was a strange sound coming from the engine compartment, and when I opened the hood, there it was! I was so pissed that I swore that I would never let anyone else touch one of my cars, and haven't yet, some 10 years later. Ever since I started, as I have been doing whatever work needed to be done, I have always had the printed copy of the vehicle's FSM by my side, despite their big cost. It took me a long time to convince my brother, who would work with me, from time to time, to buy his own service manuals, but now he does, and he understands their value, although his vehicles are usually GM masses of steel that I hate to work on (like his Suburban), and he operates in a way that forces me to do the basic reading and understanding of his GM manuals to get down to the job he wants to do. But, at least I know the value of those manuals. What I don't yet know is how to use the diagnostics sections, which is a large part of the manual set. I will put that on my TODO list because of your comment. So, another thanks to you.

Another interesting thing about that Celica motor mount problem is that in striking the curb with the wheel the impact bent the steering knuckle, which I had thought was made of cast iron, as did the members of the Celica forum I was using at the time. There was a howl coming from those guys back then when I first said that the steering knuckle had been "bent." "Oh, that's a piece of crap, cast iron doesn't bend, it would only fracture!" And they all agreed that I was crazy. Only I wasn't crazy, though it took a lot of careful thinking and measuring, and time, to be able to show them, and I might not have been able if I hadn't replaced the wheel bearing and changed out the disc brakes and put on a new rotor. That way, when I tried to get the car moving again, the brakes and rotor would not rotate without causing a bunch of noise. I had to go to an auto junk yard to get another steering knuckle, and the car drove just fine after I installed the new knuckle. Sorry I am so far off topic.

I am guessing that the breather in my W59 transmission is the opening where the shifter goes into it, but I will continue to search for another possibility when I begin to clean it up prior to installation back into the truck. I still have to order the other clutch parts. Oh, that reminds me, someone else mentioned to me that the purpose of the dual mass flywheel is designed for vehicles that get involved in stuff like drifting and racing. One guy was teling me that there is something called a "rev limiter" that gives the rear wheels some kind of "kick" shock that causes them to go into the tire sliding of a "drift" and added that he sees little reason such a flywheel would do anything noticeable to help a stock daily driver. Well, certainly, if your engine is going to have some kind of device that interrupts its operation, if only for a moment, it will cause an impulse momentum change which will reflect to the flywheel. I would not argue that the dual mass flywheel would not be good for that, but still I cannot help but think that it would also smooth out the roughness of a 4-cylinder engine. Talk me down. . .

Huge thank you for the "SKF CR Seals Handbook of indutrial shaft seals". I spent a couple of hours working my way through that handbook and found it was a storehouse of information about seals and the sealing process, exactly what I needed. Stuff I never knew, and something that will probably really slow down my progress (kidding, but there is truth in that). Let me ask you if you take the care described to examine the "counterface" and seal to determine the root cause of each seal failure that you repair? Now that I have read that handbook, I am obliged to explain to myself why each seal failure happened, so when I fix it, I wil know that the seal will be FIXED!

One chart in there that was speaking of that "root cause analysis" had a staggering amount of information, for a layperson. Till I read that, I thought that all you needed to do if a seal failed was to buy a new one and drive it home. That's what all of the DIY guys on YouTube do.

I fell in love with the "Speedy-sleeve" concept and speedy-sleeves. What a perfect solution to shaft wear caused by grit getting between the seal's lip and the rotating shaft, causing a circular gouge in the metal. Of course, I would not have been looking at the "counterface" to check for that if I hadn't read that document!!! But now that I know, it only makes sense to be aware, and to take corrective action. If not, you will almost definitely have another leaking seal soon after you make the replacement.

Question for you. When you install PTFE based seals, which are not as flexible as other materials and therefore need the installer to be more careful, do you use one of the installation tools that permit you to get the lip of the seal over the edge of the end of the shaft? Maybe you can say a couple of words about the real world, so I don't get too carried away worrying about installing a new seal? Already we have had a preliminary go around with the rear main seal and me polishing the seal retainer aluminum surface. And they say you should install PFTE based seals DRY, when other seals can have substances rubbed on them (housing side) so they go in easier.

I don't know if I am going to take things too seriously from now on, but I can tell you that I sure am more cognizant of what makes a good seal. And, again, I have you to give many thanks for sharing that document. Being that it is from SKF, a Swedish company that is top in sales around the globe, with $8.88 Billion per year (?), and that they started off life some 110 years ago in Chicago, selling seals made of cowhide, I gained a tremendous confidence in SKF seals and ball bearings (or maybe their handbook contains hype along with the truth?). I should not have to worry again if I use one of their products.

 

Do you know about Double Clutch transmissions? I stumbled on a description of it posted to Quora. I copied the bare minimum description. For the full description and a nice illustration, you can go to Quora.

Q: What is a dual clutch transmission?

Answered by Madan Mohan Rao Jul 29
Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) is a type of automated manual transmission used in vehicles. It combines the advantages of both manual and automatic transmissions to provide smoother gear shifts and improved performance. DCT operates using two separate clutches, one for even-numbered gears (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.) and the other for odd-numbered gears (1st, 3rd, 5th, etc.).

 

Your time in Marshall islands sounds relaxing. Sometimes it's good to have a break from the interest. Especially nowadays when the whole world is on the internet. I'm going to Grenada and St.Vincent and the Grenadines. My Mom and Dad are from those countries respectively, when I was in school as a youngster we would go frequently but as I got older and became an adult, not so much.

I don't see a breather on your transmission, maybe it "breathes" through the shifter seals? I'm sure. There is some sort of venting mechanism otherwise the increased pressure from the gears warming up would blow the seals or at the least oil out of the transmission.

When you take the shifter tower off, if it has a rubber gasket that protrudes more than the depth of the groove then you should be alright to reuse the seal. If the seal sits flush to the groove then it should be replaced because it wouldn't seal.

I can only imagine the angry when you learned your engine left it's home due to shop negligence. I also have a hard time trusting others to work on my vehicle. Even just an oil change with my own supplied oil at the dealership. Cast iron *shouldn't* bent but i've learned from my time with vehicles anything is possible and as long as you've done everything you can to either prove the failure or prove that nothing else is the problem then it's always possible.

Getting a factory service manual is gold in my opinion. I feel Toyota fsm's are more diy and old fashion friendly but in my opinion (i'm biased because thats my primary experience) GM has the best service manuals. The old ones more so than the new ones. Reason is GM used to not only tell you how to check with a flow chart but also the reason for the check and what exactly you're testing. Newer service manuals just tell you to check for X and if you get A or B then go to either step 3 or 7 without actually explaining what you're testing for or why you're doing that test. It's good to look at the diag process for different makes because even for the same issue different makes test differently. For example GM tells you to check rear window defrosters with steel wool and to look for sparks where as ford says use a test light and look for a change in brilliance between the grid lines. The Service manual isn't always the best diag instructions of process but without the experience it's better than nothing. My pro tip is read the whole procedure before starting. Sometimes it'll want you to check the most difficult and least likely to fail component first and the most likely to fail and easier to access last for unknown reasons.

I'm not into racing but tbh I have a hard time seeing a dmf in racing applications. The extra dampening abilities of the dmf will also numb the power transfer compared to a solid flywheel transferring power along with dmfs being quite heavy. Often racing clutches have no dampening at all to them and lightened flywheels. Sometimes aluminum with just a thin sometimes replaceable steel wear surface. Maybe hitting the rev limiter can cause an unintentional drift but I can't see a dmf being the solution to that issue. Different gearing, different gear selection entering and leaving the corner. Maybe i'm wrong, i'm not in racing circles but i've also seen solid flywheel conversions for dmf setups but never the other way around.

I don't honestly analyze anything when I have a leak beyond making sure my seal matches before removal, checking the shaft for wear and/or excessive play that would prevent the seal from working and when I remove the old seal I get a feel for if it's a snug fit in the bore along with visually looking and physically confirming with a fingernail any nicks I may see and dealing with it as I see fit such as sanding/filing smooth or replacement. When I go to install it I expect resistance that will prevent me from just pushing it on by hand. Most automotive seals that i've seen either fail from wear/age, excess system pressure either due to excess fluid or it's breathing system plugging or possibly incorrect/contaminated fluid. I guess that kind of is analysis of failure aha. A better way to say that is that I don't go into as much depth as outlined in the Skf handbook.

PTFE seal are not forgiving. In automotive land we commonly call them teflon seals, current uses for them are primarily in automatic transmissions and steering racks/gears in the hydraulic control valve area under where your steering shaft will attach. Direct injection injectors will also usually have atleast 2 rows of PTFE seals to seal the injector into the combustion chamber.

Some PTFE seals have a hook end and others are a solid piece. The solid piece ones should be warmed up. Boiling them shortly I recall being the proper way. Most guys throw them on dry. Some guys including myself will just put them in our mouth for a bit to warm them up. I would not attempt installing one without the proper tools or at the least a very well made improvised tool. Sharpie caps i've seen work but were conveniently the perfect diameter for the shaft the seal was to be installed on. After you slide the seal over the shaft and into it's groove there is then another tool to place over the seal to contract it to it's proper size otherwise it'll just stay loose and flopping and very likely get damaged on component installation. It's been a while but unless it's a style seal that looks like a crankshaft seal with the installation sleeve inside, I do recall lubricating it with what it seals to prevent damage during install. For the ones with the install speed I just install as is and follow the included instructions.

I was told by my engineer disguising as high school auto teacher that skf, fag and Koyo are the people to buy seals and bearing from but tbh I don't know. I have a preference for those companies but aside from reading SKF's hand book, I have not really data to back me up.

 

I have no experience working on them but I have driven them often and my Dad has a VW Alas with a DCT or in VW land a DSG(Direct shift Gearbox). They're really cool and efficient with great performance. Basically a manual transmission with a clutch for he even gears and clutch for the odd gears. The computer pre-selects the next gear, either up or down, depending on what it predicts it'll need next then, the shift is completed by disengaged one clutch and engaging the other. Only real cons that i'm aware of is that they don't often have a smooth take off. They're getting better but a computer doesn't have the feel for releasing the clutch like a human does and it's really not good to creep along with them. It'd be the same as creeping through traffic having to constantly ride the clutch to creep then sink it to stop.
Pros are that performance is usually unmatched. Shifts faster than you can blink. Test drive a VW sometime and especially if you punch the gas and it recognizes you want to accelerate in a big hurry, it will shift extremely fast which includes efficiency and performance. I believe Mazda has a.."hybrid" (I don't know if thats a real term but it's the best description) DCT which basically has a conventional torque converter too in it to provide a smooth take off but with the perform of a DCT.

 

I want to come back to your two latest comments later, if you don't mind, because I have an overwhelming urge to first ask a question that has been an important unresolved issue of mine for a long time. It goes back to my discovery of the extreme sludge in the engine.

The question is, how did that sludge get formed inside my engine (EXACTLY)?

Important Background: my wife and I hunkered down at home throughout the almost 3-year covid pandemic. We tried to severely limit our interaction with other people, so didn't go out very often. Consequently, we didn't drive our cars very often. She has a 2006 Infinity Q35, and whenever we went out, she, or we, would normally take her car, leaving our Tacoma sitting in the driveway the majority of the time. I am giving you that information first because when I first sought information about the cause of the sludge, the speculation was that the long-term sitting, and short trips (no interstate driving) when we did use it was the primary cause of the sludge formation.

I feel that you will also conclude the same thing, given that information. However, I am pretty good with oil changes, and use Mobil 1 synthetic. I am used to changing the oil whenever I see that it is starting to get dark. Since I wasn't thinking about it during the pandemic period, I cannot tell you how many months went by between oil changes, but since I look at the oil dipstick reasonably often, I think I would have noticed if it had begun to turn.

Then, after I discovered the sludge, I begain an all-out war to get it out of my engine, a war that is close to being over. I had never dealt with oil sludge before, and only can tell you that the engine seemed to be running fine when the oil smoke started coming from the engine compartment, which led me to remove the valve cover. I assumed that if the engine was running ok before the sludge was noticed, it should run even better after I clean out as much of the sludge as possible, replacing whatever parts I come across that seem to need new, such as the timing chain and its two sprockets, replacing the valve stem oil seals, etc. And I told you I've been through the valve/cam area, the timing chain area, the oil pan area, the under side of the moving parts (crank shaft and rod caps, counterweights, inside the block walls, wherever I could get my hands into), and now the rear main seal area.

The thinking I went through as to how the sludge was formed included thinking of the possibility that something else in the engine system might have failed, gotten plugged up, or messed up, or a vacuum hose wasn't connected, say, and that malfunction might have been the root cause of the sludge. For that reason, I replaced the PCV valve, and made sure the hoses to the valve cover were both free and clear of obstructions. But, that's where my knowledge ended. I Googled around a bit but never did find anything else that was said might have caused the sludge. There was something I read, maybe in passing, that was talking about carbon buildup in the intake manifold or intake openings to the valves themselves, but whatever that article said did not impress me as being a clear fact, so I have not taken the intake off to check (laziness?, but after taking of so much other stuff, really? I need to go to that much more trouble?).

You have been around the block, so to speak, fixing problems with automobiles, and I was just wondering if you might have ever personally seen or been told by an associate of a similar situation where a sludged engine was not totally replaced, but de-sludged in some manner not necessarily the way I did it, and the root cause was finally determined to be some other malfunction within the engine system, rather than infrequent use of the vehicle and/or short trips of stop and go driving.

I doubt you will have seen this situation before, but you have such a good grasp of automobile mechanics you just might have a slightly different opinion than others. I had to ask, else be left feeling that I should have done it while I could.

PS: I looked up Grenada, St. Vincent, and the Grenadines and located them (if I am correct) in the archipelago that stretches from almost Venezuela to pretty far north in the lower carribean. I did enjoy one very relaxing rum-filled two-week sailing vacation in the Carribean, long ago, but much farther north. Without ever having been where your parents are from, I can just imagine your parents living in that tropical setting. Having lived on Kwajalein (5 degrees north of the equator) and having married a Filipina from Davao City, Mindanao, Philippines (8 degees north of the equator), whenever we go there, I feel like I am home (I enjoyed living on Kwajalein so much) under that tropical sun, and I just love it in the Philippines. I also imagine that you must love going there with your parents. It is quite a large temperature difference when you go from Alberta, Canada to Grenada (etc), right!

 

Trusting others to work on your car:

The ONE time she took her car out to get its oil changed by someone else (since I was so busy with the Tacoma), well. . . at the next oil change, I went to loosen the oil drain plug, and WTF? Whoever it was that had done the change for her must have used an air impact to slam the plug back in. . . OMG, with as much torque as they applied on it, it is only by the grace of God that it didn't strip the threads out!! I will NEVER trust anyone else working on my vehicles! Hope I never have to eat those words.

Can cast iron be bent?:

I Googled "what metal is used to make auto steering knuckles"?

"Traditionally, the steering knuckle is made of ductile cast iron or forged steel; however, due to recent tendency towards lighweight, more cars are supplied with aluminum knuckles." So, maybe my Celica had a steering knuckle made of DUCTILE cast iron, in which case the bending I proved was only to be expected. They were not made of cast iron, evidently.

Some common synonyms of ductile are:

adaptable, malleable, plastic, pliable, and pliant.

 

You said a mouthful in that paragraph. Also, it is clear here that you usually have a PLAN B ready in case your first approach doesn't work out, and sometimes even a PLAN C. Falling back to the "garter spring" would have never come to my mind, no matter how long I had thought about that problem. I looked at my rear main seal "garter spring" and there isn't a place in it that indicates that it can be taken apart. At least, I do not see a place.

To check my understanding of how the anaerobic sealant works. I took several photos of the rear main seal and its retainer, hoping you will be able to look through the plastic and see enough details of the seal that you can recognize it.



That seal is supposed to be put in dry.

Suppose I am working on the corrosion and eventually get rid of it, but in the process I become unsettled that perhaps I have sanded a bit too much of the aluminum out of the bore and fear the seal might not seal very well dry up against the aluminum (I know you said the seal would rarely leak on the metal retainer surface, that the more likely place to see a leak is at the inner lip of the seal that fits against the rotating crankshaft). I think there is a revised Rear Main Seal retainer made by Toyota that has a "seat," if that's the word, a flat edge that would allow one to drive the seal into the bore and only stop pushing it in when it "bottomed out" at that thing I am calling a "seat." If that was the case, I'm favoring your view over mine. The retainer I have is just a smooth polished inner diameter into which the seal could, in theory, be pushed straight through.

Now, suppose I didn't push the Rear Main Seal in DRY, but instead smeared a small amount of anaerobic sealant around the perimeter of the OD of the seal, and then pressed it into position, thinking that if there was too much of the aluminum taken off during the sanding process, the anaerobic sealant would fill the gap.

1) would the anaerobic sealant cure (harden) where it sits between the seal surface and the aluminum surface (no air would get in)?

2) would that not be a reasonable solution to my perceived problem? It seems analagous to the case where you gingerly remove and replace a particular seal because you had to (only twice).

Who makes this anaerobic sealant and where can I buy it?

And the "Speedi-Sleeve" by SKF seems to me a wonderful way to take care of a slightly messed up rotating shaft. The only downside there is cost. Being OCD, I think I would end up using a "Speedi-Sleeve" on every seal replacement, because they give a better sealing surface than the original rotating shaft, and last longer and resist wear by rough particles of dirty stuff getting between the seal and the shaft surface (counterface).

 

That made me laugh when you suddenly realized that you were describing your search for a root cause. It's the tension between our different perspectives hindering communication, I suppose. But, to me, that is what is valuable most to me, your depth of experience in the real world. You are telling me how you actually do the variety of things needed to be done to make repairs to a car, while most of what I am doing is thinking through how I might approach the same problem, based on what experience I have gained to date.

When I worked as an electrical engineer you might say that my mind was deep into books, drawings, plans, sketches, calculations, but not the real world, and for a long time, from first day of college to my last day of work, which ended prematurely. Trying to gain my footing in the real world after that was ever so difficult to me. I felt (actually, I WAS) useless in the real world. What real world training I have started with the work that needed to be done on the house we purchased, which was a lot.

By now, I am unafraid to start any project of any kind around the house, and now I am also getting to that point with the cars. My wife and I took HVAC courses at the local community college so we could replace our own HVAC system (it was about 20 years old at the time and R-22 refrigerant was being phased out), so I decided to pick and install our next HVAC system. We originally had a gas-pack (Natural gas boiler for heat, electrically driven compressor for the AC, and it all sits in a single box living outside). I installed a Bosch 18.5 SEER heat pump (electrically driven compressor for both heat and cooling, and it all sits in a single box living outside). A heat pump changes from winter to summer by a "reversing valve" that simply reverses the direction that the refrigerant moves, and the functions of the evaporator and condenser as a consequence.

It took me three years after having taken the HVAC courses to work my way through understanding the "air side" of the HVAC equation (air ducting to send the proper amount of conditioned air to all parts of the house, and flow all that air back to the HVAC to be reconditioned), something that wasn't covered in the courses, and I had to learn the 6 or so building code manuals I was being held responsible for by the city inspections department, and I used specialized software needed to do what is called a Manual J (heat load calculation) on our house.

The original plans and materials submitted by the builder to get his building permit, exactly the stuff I needed to do the Manual J had been trashed by the city sometime in the past due to lack of file storage space, so I had to reverse engineer the structural details, measure everything. All that is done to know how many BTUs you need to condition the airflow in your house, and knowing the amount of BTUs you need, the size of machine is then known.

Getting an HVAC manufacturer to sell me an HVAC unit was the killer. That industry HATES DIY guys, guess just like automobile manufacturers HATE DIY guys. Hey, I know more than one way how to get myself cross threaded. . .

 

I am having a bit of difficulty with these two paragraphs, and I don't know why. Maybe you can send a photo of a PTFE seal and point out a couple of important things about them. Or maybe a slight elaboration? I don't know what to suggest, but when you wrote that "Some guys, including myself will just put them in our mouth for a bit to warm them," the mental image was blank. I think it was the size of most seals I have worked with are too big to go into a mouth. . . maybe it is something simple like

 

What exactly caused your sludge formation, I couldn't say. As far as i'm aware sludge formation is caused by poor quality/inadequate oil for the engine, excessive service intervals, engine design, engine faults such as internal coolant leakage or short trips which don't allow the engine to reach operating temperature for a period of time. More specifically contamination of the oil due to short trips. primarily in the sense of moisture condensing in the crankcase. All of those factors though take time to form sludge. Especially at the level i'm picturing from your description.

Mobil one is a fine oil and I believe you to be good with your service intervals. I don't believe the Covid induced hiatus of driving would of caused the amount of sludge i'm picturing even if you didn't change the oil once in that time frame. It could possibly be a mechanical engine fault like an internal coolant leak or defective pcv valve. Tbh though if I were to guess I would say maybe the previous owner neglected maintenance a bit or the dealer used subpar oil. A factor too is that when that truck was new, oil quality wasn't what it is today so especially if it had dealer oil changes for a while it may have just been getting the cheapest oil that was brown and slippery that they could acquire.

For issues i've seen personally not caused by owner neglect in some way is first the oil life monitor in gm's stay life for way too long. Guys that put on 10'000kms a year still sometimes only get the notification once every 13'000kms despite it's calculation algorithm topping out at 16'000kms when considering time, engine usage and ambient temperature. Second is a design fault of the old 1.4 ecotec engines which has pcv's that would (partially) freeze the repair for that though was just to simply replace the valve and hosing assembly with an updated part which was electrically heated and send it out the door. I've also noticed when looking into the valve train(where possible) via the oil fill cap that early all aluminum engines always appeared to have more sludge in them a cast iron blocked engine. Not the anymore from what i've seen but I would chaulk that up to a design error. Specifically I would say primarily related to aluminum engines running cooler on average overall and possibly the pcv system not being proper for such an engine. I can't say 100% though. That's just speculation. I also vaguely remember one of my 2nd year, powertrain, instructors telling up another cause of sludge can be caused by the oil becoming cavitated from being drawn to the crankshaft and beated like an egg in the crankcase while the engine is at a high rpm. Windage trays and in high performance applications, crank scrapers are usually how thats dealt with. I've never honestly seen an engine from the factory without a windage tray of some sort unless it was a part of the oil pan and someone replaced the pan with a cheap aftermarket one.

I've never personally desludged an engine and typically would just recommend more frequent oil changes with a decent quality oil. I'm not against flushes but have never used one on an engine that wasn't already in pretty good shape. I've heard there have been cases where aggressive flushes have broken loose a large enough chuck of sludge that it plugs the oil pickup tube. I've never see that or know anyone personally that's experienced that but it is possible.

As recently i've started perusing the "Bob is the oil guy" forums. I don't participate because over there is appears there are tribologists, chemists and, engineers which are far more knowledgable and experienced in the field of lubricants than I. Of course there are also average Joe's and ever now and then a topic I feel confident chiming in on but I prefer to just spectate over there. Point of me mentioning that though is that i've seen and followed "High Performance Lubricants" over there and people that have used and documented their results with it. From what I understand, the Ester base of their lubricants provide gently dissolving and completely cleaning of all the engine internals it encounters. I would recommend that over a flush because I feel the best and safest way to internally clean the engine aside from manually is slowly vs attempting to do it quickly with a flush. I've never honestly put much into de-sludging an engine beyond better oil, more frequent oil changes and driving it hard or on the highway for a while to get it hot to be honest with you.

You are correct in locating Grenada and St.Vincent. It was nice to get away, got my show my Wife the caribbean for the first time and catch up with family on both islands. My parents are going to be down there until the end of February. The vacation felt even better after my miserable set working almost exclusively outside in -35 to -43 the two weeks prior to leaving. It was between +20 and +30*C while we were there so I basically went from freezing to baking but after my last set i'll take it. Have you been back to Kwajalein since you left?

 

Oh man just using my Tacoma as an example with free dealer services and not warranty jobs or even some of the hack stuff i've seen my fellow techs do to customer vehicles, every trip to my local dealer was an ordeal. From using the wrong oil (0w-16 instead of the recommended 0w-20 and refusing to change it again to atleast 0w-20), to lying about the work they did (saying they rotated my tires and inspected the insides of my drum brakes and having it in writing that they do/did only for me to put it on my hoist at work the next day to actually rotate the tires and find my drums rusted onto the hubs proving they didn't touch them), to fudging work orders on my truck ( telling me and writing the work order that they drove my truck over 100kms to duplicate a concern that the service manager could repetitively duplicate with me in the passenger seat but magically they couldn't duplicate when I left it for two weeks with them... even after the 9th visit when I printed off the exact way to reproduce it and stapled a copy of the service bulletin to the back of it and stated on the front page that I did exactly that. They put on 3kms total in two weeks.). I've had to buy and replace wheel studs because of them along with almost do any warranty job over again myself due to not fixing it right or at all the first time no matter the job. Even forgot my oil cap one time. Atleast they gave me a new cap for free that time.

I'm well out of warranty so I don't really have any reason to pay someone else to work on my vehicle but there are a few places at this time that I fully trust to work on my vehicle. One is a Volkswagen dealer 5 hours away that only really does warranty work on my Dad's Volkswagen and the other is a Toyota dealer 7 hours away that did some warranty work for me when I lived over there. An alignment is the only maybe for me but even then i've learned the majority of mechanics don't actually really understand them well so i've been exploring options to allow me to do them at home with the precision of a machine but without the cost and space required for one.

Specifically ductile cast iron would make sense for your steering knuckle and sounds a big familiar. I'd have to find and look back at my trade school books to verify my memory but ductile cast iron is for sure very different than just cast iron. I don't know if i've ever seen forged but I can see the benefits when looking for more strength than aluminum alloy but less weight than ductile cast iron. I like aluminum knuckles due to the lower unsprung weight but I get that isn't the best fit for all applications