Removing a leaf from stage 1 RXTs?

I'm thinking I'll just end up taking out the spring 3rd from the top, which is contributing more to spring rate at ride height than it is to support. I'm assuming your alternative suggestion to me fucking around and finding out would be to buy different leaf packs, which is what I'll do anyway if they don't ride right or sag etc. Although considering this technology is hundreds of years old, I don't think it'll be too hard to find something that works. Got 5 leaves in the pack to potentially remove and a 6th on the wall that I can swap in place of the pair that usually sandwich it at the max setting, so lots of options.

 

If you pull the 3rd leaf, then check that the leaves above it are not bending unnaturally (put a bit of weight in there to help make it more obvious if you need to). If they look wavy or "W" shaped or anything, then driving it around like that could end up fatiguing the rest of the leaves and one of them breaking.

If it were me, I'd just keep the sandbags back there until you get your Coastal offroad bumper (if that's not too far off in the future anyway), then reevaluate things from there.
Having the bags back against the tailgate will make them more effective than if they're at the front of the bed (put a board against the fender wells as a divider if needed).

With the shell on there you should be fine.
How much weight total you figure is going to be back there?

 

It will be variable, but when hunting I often run around with dogs, camping gear, food, water, tools, jack, other gear. 300-400lbs+?, when working I’m either carrying a bunch of tools or hauling a load.

honestly I’m less concerned about it being too high in the rear and more concerned about if I’ll need additional stuff like shims, carrier bearing drop, extended bump stops, etc.

I’d seen on some other threads that the RXTs additional thickness means you don’t run into compression issues with 5125s and stock bump stocks, but I guess I won’t know for sure until I can measure everything.

As for shims/CB drop I guess I’ll just wait to see if there’s vibes after install and go from there?

First time lifting a truck and I don’t know what I don’t know

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it until after you get the springs on there. Once they are on, you can then measure how much shock shaft is showing vs. your bump stop clearance (allowing for 1" of snubber deflection) and go from there (if you do find your current bumps are too short, just don't put any weight back there until you have taller bumps on it, it'll be fine in the meantime as long as you don't go offroad/hit any really huge bumps).
Does a single cab truck even have a carrier bearing?

 

i just looked, it sure doesn’t

 

Yeah that's pretty much the plan; I also don't tow for shit with a 2.7 auto and don't usually have notable weight out back, so i think they should have pretty decent support. I'll have to add a lot more metal than the bumper to weigh these down, but there's plenty of spots to add functional weight in the whole frame so I could get it level with enough welding. Truck ate ten years in Vermont with no fluid film too so it'll need it anyway. Did a ton of stuff this year already on the front half plus new regear diffs, so me and my wallet are tuckered out for the season lol.

 

That stock reg cab driveshaft is a little asshole lol. Drove me nuts for months grinding and shaking to no end after the lift, so I threw a Tom wood's double cardan for a 4runner in there since the stock slip yoke can't take the angle of the short wheelbase and Tcase. I love the regular cabs but they're a bitch to modify compared to the other tacos...

 

Damn. Guess I might be getting a driveshaft too. The slip yoke itself was grinding against the transfer case “yoke” where the u joint is housed? Or the u joint was just over stressed from the new angle so stuff was vibrating/grinding?

Was the grinding all the time or just when axle was at/nearing full droop?

do you think this is going to be a definite problem for me or is it a wait and see kind of thing

 

I'm not sure if all RC 4x4s are like mine, but if the splined slip yoke is on your driveshaft (boot on the shaft) instead of the transfer case like mine, then you may run into issues. It varies from truck to truck it seems, but mine was the worst when I was in between acceleration and deceleration aka no load on the shaft, and then a slighter vibe on deceleration; slip yoke splines and ujoints were perfect too so wasn't gonna gamble on a new OEM shaft (like $20 less than the Tom wood's) . If you only lift it like 1-2 inches in the rear you may be good, but I'd budget the 500 for the Tom wood's shaft to be safe. If you go the double cardan route you'll also need some fairly steep angle shims to point the pinion up; I just ordered 6° since my 4°'s aren't enough even weighing the back down after my regear. Some guys have also had luck with a 3/4" flange spacer at the axle or flipping the shaft, but for me the double cardan replacement was the way to go. It took me awhile to actually figure out the problem, so if nothing else at least you're prepared now lol.

 

HC bumpers without swingouts dont really add any weight to the rear. With a swingout & spare back there youll actually take some load off the front and transfer it to the rear since it is so far back.

I have a set of bastard packs that I made out of two stock 3rd gen packs that I dont use anymore, in NH. Free if you want it to take some leaves and mess around with it.

 

Oh shit, thanks man, that's awesome of you. I'm in Nashua area so if you're close enough I may have to take you up on that if I can't get something I like with the leaves I have on hand.

Coastal says their base HC bumper is 120lbs, and since I'm not doing a swing out, it'll probably add maaaybe 50lbs I'm thinking. When I do that I'll be adding a bunch of plates and tube from the shackles hangers forward, as well as design a hinged, bolt-in spare crossmember that goes under the tire to tuck it higher while adding stiffness and more weight. I also need to get their front bumper and skids too because the front has a similar stiffness issue with the regular 6112 600lb springs and sits a little high for good downtravel. Hoping that combined with a few hundred pounds out back should help the whole truck settle and ride smoother; plus, I can get better handling with the more weight bias I add to the back, so it's wins all around. Gonna take a shit ton of argon though lol.

 

Im right near concord but headed to the hollis area 7/26.

What are you building this truck for? Id solve this issue with the springrate/valving for the weight you have rather than adding weight to make a springrate ok. Weight aint good for performance in any way.

Going through argon... Tell me about it, just finished my flatbed in June.

 

Are you talking still having that OL in the negative arch orientation? Wouldn't that requite the rest of the leaf pack to go W shaped in order for that leaf to be of any more use than a 1/2" block? Or do you mean flip it around?

 

I'd keep it flipped as it comes stock, as long as the springs don't get too bowed. I'd rather just take out one of the longer leaves though since that'll do more to soften the ride.

 

I just checked. I do have that style driveshaft. I figure I’ll just have to put it on the truck and see. If I have an issue I suppose I’ll try that easier/cheaper stuff first, before I bite the bullet and buy a driveshaft.

I just need the truck in good working order before hunting season starts, lol

 

Oh sweet, I'll be messing with the springs this weekend when I install my 6° shims, so I'll know if I need em by then. Thanks again.


Also, all the weight I'm talking about adding is functional stuff that I've been planning to do throughout the next year or two anyway, so I don't want to buy all new springs when I'd just need heavier ones again next summer instead of tolerating some bouncing till then. I want to build this truck mainly for overlanding and camping rather than hard crawling (why I went for a truetrac instead of locker out back), but with the capability and beef to be a wannabe "prerunner" on occasion. The handling thing I was talking about is just weight distribution too; with a few hundred lbs in the bed it's a lot more balanced and less understeery since the RC is more front weight-biased than longer wheelbases (great for handling in snow or dirt, especially when sideways lol). Definitely don't want to add weight that doesn't serve a purpose like protection or stiffness of course, because it's slow enough as is even with the new 4.88s lol.

 

No problem just let me know.

That makes sense, frame boxing wont add much weight. Your spare crossmember sounds very interesting. I was thinking of making one that has a lower profile so it will tuck up into the bed a little better. Then I got rid of the bed

 

if you're running the cap and other extra weight out back then the stage 1 RXTs should be a less aggressive on yours, so you may be ok with the cheap/free fixes. If it's iffy, you can always load up a few hundred pounds extra to squat it down till you can get it smooth. I had to drive mine with the driveshaft issue for a couple months, and now the bearings in the T-case are singing a bit, so definitely want to be prepared for it in some way unlike me.

 

I thought I did a lot of research before ordering these particular springs. I know now I did not.

I guess I’ll start with stage one and go from there. If Im unhappy with height of the lift when I’m loaded down I can always try option two, but seems like option 3 will be too much no matter what. If I get vibes Ill try flipping the driveshaft. if they stick around I’ll just go ahead and spring for the double Cardan and shims so I don’t have to keep messing with it.

 

Negative arch.
The OL leaf has a gentle bow to it which smoothly comes into play as the spring compresses.
Without the OL (or without the small leaves), all the pressure would concentrate right at the edge of the spring perch, which this also can turn leaves into "W"s and can fatigue/bend/break them.
RXTs normally sit with just a slight little bit of positive arch (unloaded), whereas the OEM leafs are closer to flat. Without any weight in the bed, the OL leaf should not be in play at all, whereas the original two small leaves still would be (this change is where any amount of drop would come from). There also shouldn't be any "W"ing of the leaves while it's unloaded. When OP loads his vehicle, the leaves will then begin to rest on the OL and it begins to support the leaf pack similar to as if the small leaves were there.
Twisting (torque moment) from the axle will also quickly apply the OL leaf to the rest of the leaves too.

Again I don't know exactly how much drop will come from it (like i said, it could be just a half-inch), but certainly it's not going to damage anything. If OP finds a pair of OLs and it doesn't lower the truck enough, then the only thing lost is a bit of time. If it does work out for him, then all the better.

One thing I should add though, if an issue arises with the springs and Icon catches that they were altered (even if just a blown bushing), it's likely they will use that to deny warranty (there's been issues in the past with Icon's CS if you dig back a ways).
This is partly why I said above to maybe keep using the sandbags in the meantime 'til you get your bumper / do the rest of what you plan to do (the other being it's a fair bit of work to keep disassembling & reassembling leaf packs).