Repaired - 2009 Rear Diff Noise & Metal shavings @ less than 93K miles

So my 2009 truck is having an issue. It has under 93K miles on it and it started making a worn bearing type noise. Let me break down what I've done so far and provide the symptoms:

1. You can hear the noise with the windows rolled up but not with the windows rolled down, that should give you an idea how loud it is, not terribly but annoying.
2. With the windows rolled up the noise starts at about 30 MPH and gets worse as you speed up to 55 MPH, doesn't change much after that.
3. Placed the truck into Neutral and the noise is not related to the transmission but must be the drive shaft or further back.
4. Got under the truck and wiggled all the drive components I could but no dice, nothing obviously loose or worn.
5. I placed the rear end on jack stands and placed it in Drive. The noise was definitely coming from the differential or rear drive shaft bearings, not the wheels at all.
6. I placed the truck back on the ground and pulled the upper diff oil plug, no oil ran out (good), dipped my finger in and I felt oil and it didn't look bad nor smell bad.
7. I drained all the oil out and unfortunately I found a lot of metal particles on the magnetic lower plug. I'm pretty sure the diff has a problem, maybe the input shaft bearing.
8. I cleaned off the plug and put it all back together using some cheap 80-90W dino oil. I can replace the oil with better stuff if I need to at a later date, I'm just trying to diagnose the problem.
9. I don't think the diff will fail for a while but I will be hyper sensitive to the noise it makes.

The Toyota dealership did replace my drive shaft for an oil leak at the yoke, I doubt this is related but... And I replaced the diff oil at around 60K miles a few years back. The truck does not pull a load, most of the time it is loaded with the driver and a single passenger, I'm old so I drive like a sane person because I value my truck and plan to have it last another 10 years at least. The truck has a locking rear diff, not LSD.

So my questions are:
1. Is the diff still under warranty? If so I sure wouldn't mind letting Toyota take care of it.
2. Are there any other suggestions for testing that I have not done, with the exception of removing the diff from the housing? I have no ambition to remove the diff unless I plan to replace it. I'm not opposed to getting a diff out of a junk yard truck and replacing it but that would be one of those last on my list.

I appreciate any advice, even if it's not what I want to hear. My ultimate goal is to repair my truck for the least cost and pain.

Cheers!

 

pinion bearings are known to go, though usually on factory oil around 100k.... you stated the oil had been changed around 60k so that shouldnt be an issue but the noise you are describing (a howling under light load) sounds like pinion (input shaft)bearings going.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking. If I saw a little oil from the shaft I'd be 100% convinced but I guess the bearing isn't bad enough to damage the seal, yet, and I'd like to keep my driveway an oil-free zone. If I rebuild the diff then I'll have a local shop do it because I know that loading the crush bearing (I'm sure I'm using wrong mechanical terminology) on the pinion gear is critical and I don't have the shop to handle that type of work. Hopefully the warranty is in place. I'll call the dealership in the morning and hope they take pity on me.

 

How much metal shavings? Pics?
Some metal is normal.

 

yeah, moms 4 runner had 110k miles on the original rear axle oil (pops didnt change it) and started howling, didnt leak at all, just made noise. Replaced axle oil with fresh stuff and howling got worse as it washed out all the contaminates out of the pits of the bearings, still no leaks. Took it into a shop, pinion bearings (input shaft), pinion and ring gear, and diff carrier bearings all replaced with OEM goodies.

 

Sorry, no pictures, my fingers were way too oily, someday I'm going to use those disposable gloves I have in my toolbox. Having replaced diff oil in several vehicles, my opinion was it was worse than it should have been for only having ~30K miles on this oil change, that coupled with the excessive noise. I'd estimate the magnetic oil plug had about 1/8" high of fine material on it, no chunks. It had less material on the plug with my first oil change at ~60K. This was the first time the dealership recommended a diff oil change when I had the car in for an engine oil change (my car gets free engine oil changes and check-ups a few times a year plus the county inspection sticker annually) so I kindly declined when they told me the cost was almost $100 and said I'd be happy to do it myself. They did sell me the plug crush washers, that was affordable.

I'm waiting on the Toyota dealership to call me back with the news if I'm covered under warranty or not. If not then I'll just find a place that can do the work and get a price for the unit removed from the truck and installed on the truck.

 

So I'm a bit confused now about my diff code... My code is "A04C" which breaks down to (used a posting in these forums which had a breakdown chart) a 7.5" Ring Gear, 4:56 Gear Ratio, and LSD. The problem is I don't have an LSD diff. I do have an electric locking diff. Here are a few photos so someone can tell me that I screwed up or not. If this really is an LSD then I probably buggered up the diff when I changed the oil because I didn't add the special LSD fluid. Thanks for the feedback regardless of if you tell me I screwed the pooch or not. Note: The oil on the bottom of the diff was splash back from my pan, I forgot to open the vent hole so it was "plopping". You can see there is no oil where you would expect leak. The only reason I'm looking at this data is because I'll bet I'm not covered under a warranty so I'm planning to see what rebuild kit costs just in case I feel like making it a small project, or when I need to call and ask for a mechanic to do the work and I can provide them the diff info so I don't get the answer "We need to see it to give you a quote".

 

Never mind, I just found this thread https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2005-2016-tacoma-axle-codes.408019/ which helps a lot. Whew!

 

So the dealership informed me that my extended warranty expired at 75K miles but they would be more than happy to replace the diff for a mere $3548.82, and I'm sure they would I found a local machine shop and they wanted ~$1400 to repair the diff. I'll be contacting ECGS for a quote, I'm thinking it's less expensive for a quality component and I do the work swapping it out of the truck.

 

call east coast gear supply. ecgs! they will hook you up. same thing happened to me and others. there is instructions on how to replace your self on tacomaword . if your crafty or take it to a shop when you get the new one in the mail. around 1100$ i think if you do it yourself .

 

Yup, I'm mechanically inclined so replacing the diff won't be too difficult, I've watched a few videos for this specific e/locker diff so there is a slight trick to removal but it appeared to be easy enough. I just don't like working outside when it's cold so I may push this off until Spring if i can't get it done in the next few weeks.

 

are you sure its the differential that's making the noise? not the universal joints? do grease the universals regularly? its hard to believe the differential is bad since you've routinely changed out the gear oil every 30k miles, its also normal to find some metal shavings/dust on the magnetic drain plug, its hard to believe a street run non towing diff has shit the bed even at 93k miles with routine maintainence. I would grease the universals and see if the noise dissapates

 

A pinion bearing can make noise for a long time before it HAS to be replaced. Unless you are planning a trip out of town, I would just watch it till spring. Eventually you will feel some up/down play at the yoke. That is your clue that time is short. As others have said, I would just talk to ECGS. They have such a long and good history dealing with toyota gears. One thing to know is that Toyota uses a crush spacer to set pinion depth. This is to save time with assembly, but any good shock load can crush this washer a little more, changing the mess between your ring and pinion. I don't know whether ECGS offers a solid spacer option,but I'll bet they do. The crush spacer sucks.

One question that might be helpful in pinpointing the cause of the noise: Is there a difference in noise between having the diff under drive and coast??

 

looking at post #7 it looks like the universals are dry and rusted looking, I would bet they were never greased once or very seldom, but the OP has a Prerunner I think they are a sealed joint that cannot be greased. I would bet its the universals making the noise

 

I believe that Chase told me one can now request a solid spacer or the crush one from them.
And yes, the crush spacer is a real drag IMHO. Its also on the rear of the 6-speed and it also sets the bearing preload on the output shaft. I had to get up to about 400 ft. lbs. torque on the thing just to get it to start crushing and then its easy to overshoot and get too tight, lol. Oops, got to toss another one away and try again. Cha-ching$ Give me a solid spacer!

 

So to answer a few questions:

I'm 99% positive it is not the universal joint, I did do my due diligence to isolate the noise while the truck was on jack stands and while the universal joint and the pinion gear are next to each other, it sure sounded more like it was coming from the pinion gear. If it isn't then I just made a big costly mistake that I won't ever repeat. And the universal does not have a grease fitting. I will replace the universal joint in the spring unless it needs to be replaced sooner as indicated by all the squealing if the diff doesn't fix it.

I did not replace the oil at the first 30 K, only at the ~60K and ~90K. I still don't understand why the diff oil needs to be change so frequently when the truck was never under heavy load. It's been a drive around the town truck and drive in the snow truck, not tow a car or trailer truck. But I heard someone say that old gear oil was made from whale fat and that makes all the difference, not sure I believe that the diff gears are that susceptible to wear but apparently they are.

I contacted ECGS and just finished up ordering a diff and it will hopefully be shipped in a few weeks. The cost is $715 + Return Shipping (approx. $25) for a total expected cost of $740 delivered. By then my wife should have the garage cleaned out of her stuff. She took it over about 3 weeks ago and filled it up, she's been working to liberate the crap from the space.

So the next thing to do is purchase the proper break-in oil (I figure cheap dino oil), some new crush washers for the plugs, RTV, and a wire brush. Lastly I'll buy the final oil for the transmission. I need to do some searching on the best lasting oil for my driving conditions and that might allow me to replace the oil less frequently than every 30K. But I'd rather replace the oil at 30K than buy another refurb diff.

Hey, thanks everyone for the friendly advice.

P.S. Now I want to replace the universal joint and if it fixes it, cancel the diff order. Crap. I wonder how fast I can buy a universal joint, maybe the local shops carry them. Time to go look. Found one at Autozone, I'm sure another place has one. I will see if they have the special tool (looks like a C-Clamp) to remove and insert the u-joint without removing the drive shaft. I'd hate to bugger up the transmission shaft seal.

EDIT: I'm still going to replace the diff even if the noise is coming from the u-joint, there was way too much metal on the magnetic plug for such a short duration since the last time I cleaned it, I don't trust it and I need to get at least another 10 years out of this truck before I replace it. So I plan to replace all the u-joints and center drive shaft bearing soon while I wait for the diff to show up. There is a hobby shop I can use and I think I'll take advantage of that and the mechanical experience that comes with that shop.

 

very interested in whats going on here. I bought a used 2011 trd off road and the rear end makes noise as well. Had it checked out at the local tire shop and they said the oil in the diff had some metal shavings. I wouldn't say the noise was really loud and I only hear it at faster speeds (45+) when I let off the throttle

 

Conclusion: So I went and purchased two u-joints while waiting for my diff to show up. I crawled under the truck and took a hard look at the u-joints. Guess what, they are practically new, just minor surface rust. Almost 2 years ago I had the infamous drive shaft leak at the transmission yoke. The dealership said they replaced the drive shaft and I was thinking just the forward half. Well it appears that they replaced the entire drive shaft, even the center bearing because it looks to be in fantastic shape as well. Now the u-joints could still be bad however I wanted to replace the diff first so I held off. I still dropped the drive shaft where it connects to the diff, I had to do it anyway. As luck would have it the diff showed up on my front porch a few hours later. I replaced the diff with help from these forums, removal of course took the longest but for me it was cold and windy so it took me 2 days of broken work (maybe 5 hours total) to take it apart and a few hours of that to put it all back together. Let the RTV cure overnight and filled it up this morning, just finished with a short drive. The bad noise is gone!

The last things I need to do is package up the old diff and ship it back to ECGS, return my u-joints tot he local auto parts store for a refund, and change the oil @ 500 miles with Lucas 80-140W Dino Oil (on order and should arrive tomorrow). I also have a package of crush washers headed my way, should be here way in advance of hitting 500 miles.

Total cost for this endevour:
$715 - Diff from ECGS
$~25 - Returning the Diff
$~60 - 80W-140W Lube Oil (Break-in and Final Change)
$10 - Pkg 10 Crush Washers
$6 - Gray RTV
$3 - Paper Shop Towels
$3 - Twin Pack of Lava Bar Soap Bars
-------------------
Total = $822

Total Savings = Over $600 ($1400 quote from local shop minimum+tax of course)

If you are mechanically inclined the I highly recommend doing this. While this job does take a while to do for the first time, it's still very easy to accomplish. The most scary part is the weight of the 3rd member, use a jack stand to secure it when you remove it.

What do I think damaged my original diff? After careful though the last time I replaced the diff oil I used pure synthetic Mobile 1. I had no issues before using Dino oil and thought to myself that I'll put in Synthetic and increase my change interval. That is what I believe, even if I'm wrong. I will stick with Dino oil from now on for this differential.

And I really appreciate all the help folks provided me here. This is an outstanding forum.

 

So I put about 800 miles (waited for a break in the weather) on the differential and then changed out the oil for the Lucas 80-140W oil. The used break-in oil stunk like crazy and was a weird dark greenish & dull yellow ribbons of color. I used new crush washers and added 3.5 Qts of oil. It went very quickly and then I Spot Torqued it (torque until you see spots). Of course I'm kidding but it was an educated guess, the 3/8" to 1/2" socket adapter has gone missing so it is now tight but not crazy tight. I have about 120 miles since the oil change and no leaks and still a nice and quiet rear end. I'm glad I did the work myself.