Replacing my own air conditioning compressor, and now the rest of the system...help?

I'm going to bump this one up. I had an 05 extended cab I bought new and the compressor seized up around 70k miles. My brother in law's did the same thing at about 40k. Both were delphi compressors. I'm on my second 100k plus mile 05 double cab now and both had/have great A/C but both have denso compressors instead of the delphi. My bother in law wants me to fix his A/C. I was going to do a compressor, dryer, and expansion valve. But reading this is making me think I should be doing everything but lines. Although I'm not afraid of the work and I do have a manifold/vacuum pump/etc. I don't know he's going to feel about ripping the dash out of his truck. Anyone get away with not doing the evaporator/condenser? I've rehabbed a few older A/C systems without ever replacing them.

 

I just did mine with an aftermarket compressor. All I did was vacuum out the system, change the compressor and re-charge. It's been a few weeks without any issues.

My old compressor wasn't seized it was just the clutch, so I figured no debris entered the rest of the system.

Shawn.

 

To replace the dryer, you will need to replace the condesor as well, they are one unit. I think I got mine for about $70 on Rockauto.com so it wont break the bank. I replaced everything except the evaporator. I flushed it the best I could, considering its a plate and fin design, and saw no debries come out. I did have alot of debris at the filter on the expansion valve. I flushed all the lines and replaced the condesor, expansion valve and compressor. 6 months and im still icy cold. Replace every oring (actually seal washers) in the system too, its cheap insurance.

 

Actually you can replace just the dryer. It's like a sock that inserts into the condenser itself on the side. I did a RAV4 last summer with the same setup. I think it's actually the same part number dryer too. I talked to my brother in law today. He's willing to chance just doing the compressor, drier, and expansion valve. He hasn't had A/C at all for years. Says if it doesn't work he'll just trade it in the spring....

 

PLEASE HELP!!! I know the compressor takes 5 oz pag oil but how much do I need to add to the condensor and evaporator core when replacing the entire A/C system in 2005 tacoma?? Thanks!

 

I was told by the toyota mechanic to measure how much oil was in the compressor when it shipped, then add nothing else. I made note of the compressor measurement for the mechanic, and they added the remaining oil when recharging. Just make sure to pull the a/c fuse so it doesn't start up without oil.

Make sure to flush everything thourolly and replace condesor & expansion valve. Mine has been running fine for over a year now.

 

So if I understand you correctly, when they charge with refrigerant they need to also add oil at that time?

I replaced exp valve, evap core and condensor/accumulator/dryer and pulled each line and flushed individually.

Thanks!

 

A new compressor is supposed to come with a complete system charge for a bare metal (new) system. Your old compressor should have a sticker on the bottom that says how much. If present, the sticker should say 150 cc.

The factory manual says this: "Standard: (Oil capacity inside a new compressor and magnetic clutch: 150 +15 cc (5.1 + 0.51 fl.oz.)...."
(Note: does this mean 5.51 oz. total?)

However, the magnetic clutch is sealed and there is no way to add or subtract oil from it. This may be a language translation problem.

The factory manual says that when replacing the evaporator with a new one 40 cc (1.4 fl. oz.) is to be added to it. Also when replacing the condenser (the condenser and drier are one) with a new one 40 cc (1.4 fl. oz.) is to be added to it.

Confused yet? Here is what I did. I called both Delphi and Denso (exact same compressor, different badges) and was told the complete system charge for a bare metal system is what the compressor is shipped with -- 150 cc (5.1 fl. oz.). I also posted the question on an automotive A/C bulletin board board and got back a response that All Data says it is approx. 5.7 oz. but was concerned that this may be a typo because it conflicted with what both manufacturers said.

So I went with somewhere between, around 5.3 and 5.6 oz. total oil in the system. I had a bare metal system and added about 1.4 fl. oz. (40 cc) to the evaporator and 1.4 fl. oz. (40 cc) to the condenser/drier using a syringe. The rest remained in the compressor (about 2.5 fl.oz. or so). Once the system is buttoned up, spin the compressor by hand (without the drive belt attached and turning the compressor pump you should feel resistance) about 10 times or more clockwise to prime the system and prevent locking it up once the engine is started.

Toyota specs RL-897 oil, Part No. 00289-AC897. It comes in an 8 oz. bottle and can be hard to find. It appears to be a PAG 61 oil.

Post back if you need more info.

 

This is correct. Make note of how much is in the compressor and toyota tech can add more if necessary at time of recharge.

Thats what I did anyway. Sorry I cant remember exactly how much my compressor shipped with.

 

Thanks so much for the info. I had called my local dealership and spoke to one of the service managers. He told me, and I quote, "There is a sticker on the underside of the hood that will tell you"... and that is all he could/would tell me even after I argued that there wasn't a sticker. I'm pretty sure he didn't know what PAG or RL-897 oil was. Just another example of how useless (most) dealer service guys are...

Anyway; my old compressor said 150cc on it, new one was shipped with 160cc. Sounds like I should pull 80 cc and split it up between the condensor/accumulator/dryer and the evaporator core and leave the rest in the new compressor.

Thanks again guys,

 

^^ It simply amazes me how little Toyota service depts. actually know. You are absolutely correct, the label under the hood only says what type of oil, not how much.

Just so we are on the same page, we are talking about your A/C system that has all new bare components and the lines have been flushed. In other words, there is no oil sitting elsewhere in the system other that what is in the compressor, right?

Did you measure 160 cc in the new compressor or is there a label that says 160 cc?

BTW, is this a Delphi or Denso compressor? Another manufacturer may have put 160 cc in it, but it does not matter too much as this is only about a 6% difference from what the Delphi or Denso 150 cc should be, or they just got sloppy, so don't sweat it.

What I would do is take 90 cc out of the compressor and put roughly 45 cc in the condenser and 45 cc in the evaporator tube if you can. That would leave 70 cc (2.4 oz.) in the compressor (160-45-45 = 70). In the long run specific numbers are not that important because once the refrigerant is circulating it will put the oil where it wants anyway. So a total circulating in your system will be 160 cc.

The biggest thing is not to slug the compressor on start up so hand spin the compressor (the compressor, not the free-wheeling clutch hub) a dozen times to initially prime it. Also, if someone else charges it with refrigerant, tell them to not add any additional oil beyond the 160 cc total that will be in yours or you may be doing this job once again. Lots of oil in an A/C system may seem like a good idea but oil does not compress and will blow the compressor if too much is used.

 

This is a Samson compressor. I pulled 80 cc out of the compressor and put it in the evap core and condensor. Will spin the compressor a few turns by hand before engaging it with the truck running. This was a bare metal complete system replacement.

I have the cab all put back together and went to test all the controls last night and discovered the environment selector will only blow out the defroster no matter what is selected on the dial. DOH! need to figure that issue out now. I was sure I put the servo motors back correctly after replacing the evap core. The recirculate button and air blending functions are working fine though...

 

Sounds to me like you may have gotten the mode control cam messed up. This is the higher cam that controls the defrost flap, foot/defrost flaps, etc. Did you take it off by any chance (the cam beneath the motor)?

It is a PITA to adjust because there are actually 3 cam tracks within the cam that 3 pins on the end of the 3 arms ride in.

The best way to test this is to pull the 3 bolt/screws that hold the motor, pull the motor but don't touch the cam mount and leave the cam in place, then take a wrench and put it on the two flat spots (where the motor drive was) gently turn it and see if it is controlling the flaps.

I have been into the HVAC box twice. That upper cam is a PITA to adjust. I did it both times while the dash was off and you may have to go back that far again. I also got it wrong the first time and did not have good air flow to the defrosters. The second attempt I spent bunch of time studying what each flap does and located the arms accordingly. Its doable just a big PITA.

I'll dig into the factory manual and see if it is addressed.

 

I did not have the motor off (the motor that you can see with the three bolts to the left of the glove box) but I did have the arms out of the cams up by the lid that covers the AC evaporator in order to remove the lid and replace the evaporator. I marked the locations of the pins prior to disassembling and was rather sure that I had gotten them back in the same locations.

I can see the cam motor moving a tiny bit when switching the selector between pure defrost and defrost/feet modes but it does not move at all when selecting any of the other modes...

 

Now unbolt the motor and see if it moves more while not attached to the cam. The motor limits are governed internal to the servo itself and not the cam so if the motor now moves more it is being hindered by a jammed cam or one of the arms.

To double check this get a wrench with the motor off and manually turn the cam (be careful!) to see what the flaps are doing.

 

Ok I will give that a try. Are all of the flap modes controlled by this server or only defroster modes?

As I stated above the air mixture and recirculate functions work fine.

 

There are three servos:

1. The lowermost one controls only the temperature and is called the temp. servo. It is the one at your left foot next to the floor nozzle. Its cam has a single track: cold to hot.

2. The next one up is the mode control. This is the one we are talking about here. It has 3 tracks and controls all the mix functions from fresh air blowing at your face to the defrost to the heat at your feet to the combination of feet/defrost or air at your face. It controls everything shown on the dial with all the icons.

3. The last servo is located at the very top of the box where the cabin air filter is located. It controls the recirculation/outside air selection only. Push the button with the red light to make it function. This is the one you say is working ok.

BTW atev16v, I looked at the factory manual and it is silent on how to index the mode control cam (No. 2 above). I do have a spare one here and if you feel that this is where a problem lies and you need to take it off we can probably walk through it.

 

Well took motor off shaft won't spin any further, checked motor with switch and motor is working fine.

If you could post a pic of the pin locations in the correct track and cam arm spots that would be most helpful... Tearing dash apart again :-(

 

Don't know and don't have a reference. Mine is together and I would have to take it all apart to see.

Before you dig into the dash again, do you think you can get the cam holder off (same 3 type of screw/bolts)? I'm thinking its worth a try and what have you got to lose?

If you can get it off I think it might be possible to index. Post back if you are willing to try. The worst thing that can happen is......you have to take the dash off.

 

adet16v, I just took a look at mine. Seems like if you pulled the following you can get enough room to get at the mode servo:

- Remove Glove Box
- Remove Lower Floor Nozzel (the one next to your left foot -- mostly snaps on/off, may be one small screw/bolt, I forgot)
- Temp. Servo. (3 small screw/bolts)

I got to run a quick errand for about 1/2 hr but will return. I will grab my spare mode cam to reference.