Saving money around the house

I will send you some pic's when I get back from vacation on Aug 25th. Have you investigated geothermal?

 

Yeah. What I can find on the 'net. Unfortunately, nothing specific to my geographic area as in if it's possible, if it'll be effective, or how much it'll cost.

I've tried contacting a local company that does it, but they never got back to me. I may have to contact them again.

 

Just a little bump to this thread since I've started playing around with www.mint.com. That site might help people save money and budget out mods. Free to use, and pretty powerful from what I've seen so far. Can access every bank account, loan, and credit card my wife and I have, combines all the money, creates cash flow charts, budgets, and email/SMS alerts. Instead of bouncing from half a dozen sites trying to do our budget it looks like I can do it all in one spot now.

I was using MS Money, but it's only on one computer so I have to move my wife to do it, can't check it from work, and it stopped syncing with my bank when they changed the login process. And it didn't access half the accounts I have in Mint now without a bunch of tedious setup.

 

hey PT ever get anywhere with the geothermal?

This is the first I have seen this thread. Just read through it.

Myself I have an outdoor wood burner and love it. (Taylor brand) Heat the house, garage, barn, and hot water very efficiently.

Also in this area, dual fuel systems are the next wave to help cut long term energy costs.

 

when we finally get outta this god-forsaken condo.....................when we get a house and land.......i will have one of those outdoor furnaces. my ex girlfriends dad had one at their house.....and it was super nice!!!

 

No! Emailed a local company that's supposed to specialize in alternatives like wind, solar, and geothermal (they do an energy audit first to see what can be insulated better first too), but the bastards never got back to me! I even emailed them a second time complaining about the lack of response to the first email. Again, nothing.

So right now I don't even know any local companies that could/would do it, how it expensive it is, or how effective it would be. That goes for solar too since I've been trying to look into that as well.

Wife wants one of those outdoor furnaces too, but I don't wanna deal with replumbing everything! Not to mention, the furnace in the house is 4-5 years old, hardly used before we moved in, not paid for by us, and I'd hate to get rid of a "brand new" top-of-the-line furnace (so I'm told). Although, the indirect water heater is pissing me off as the damn electronic control keeps dying.

Right now we're focusing more on insulating the house (new windows last summer, more to go next summer, new doors, more insulation....) so whatever we heat with will be more effective.

 

Hey man, gotta run, off work in a few,
but quickly, don't lose hope, you don't have to do a single thing to the existing furnace to add the outdoor wood burner. No removal anyway...I still have my original heat pump as it was installed before the wood burner. It is there as a backup, although I have never needed it....
Talk more about it tomorrow......
Side note, my hot water costs me 0 dollars in the winter when the burner is fired up........sound good?
3 days without power several years ago, I had hot water for showers the whole time.......

 

How old and what type of house is it?

Generally speaking and without knowing the above;

You lose approximately 80% of your heat through the ceiling so thats a good place to start with insulation. When adding insultion, be sure not to block attic / roof ventilation or you can cause a lot of problems down the road. Also, be sure bath fans are vented out of the attic. This is especially important as you tighten up the house.

Insulating the basement rim area (vertical board above the foundation and flat wood sill plate on top of the foundation) can be a big help. Glass block window over the old steel frame windows can make a big difference. (Again, tell me the age and type house)

Windows aren't as great an upgrade as they lead you yo believe, unless you other ones were really worn out. Caulking seams and good storm windows can give you a lot more bang for the buck a lot of times.

I can tell you more after i know about the house. Age, type / style of house, type of heating system, (Forced air, hydronic?)

 

Thanks! I can already picture where to put it! And I'd like to heat my barn so I can work on the cars during the winter. I have a propane salamander when I need to work out there and a huge wood stove i picked up from a friend for $50 I'd like to install at some point. We know we can get wood too. We tend to burn cardboard and papers since we get so many boxes between diapers, wipes, toys, etc that I'd need twice as many garbage cans as we're allowed to put out (without paying more). Can you put that in those burners? How does it work without electricity? I assumed they needed some sort of electric controls and pumps to move the water at least.

This gets a bit confusing. The real estate company said 1980, but I found a newspaper as a shelf liner dated 1927, the foundation is chiseled flagstone (not something I'd expect for 1980 and later), there's older wiring remnants, and a friend of the family said there was a fire/rebuild in 1980 (probably were the 1980 date came from). But there's also poured concrete sections here and there, so it's probably been an on-going project.

We did the windows because I think they were the original ones. Half didn't have storm windows and I was able to find glass in various closets to put back in, but most of those had broken/missing tracks to hold them. I managed to rig most of them in with duct tape and outside plastic. Not great, but helps a little. But the new windows really help! We did 2 living rooms (8 windows) and there tends to be a 7 degree difference between 1 living room and the adjacent kitchen. The doors are also original I think. All wood, painted countless times without sanding first so they're lumpy, round, and don't fit the frames tightly without stapling foam or cardboard in to fill the gaps and flaps at the bottoms. Hell, the back door of our den/office is just planks nailed together like a shed door. Same with the basement one. So yeah, new doors are on my list too.

I know the roof could be insulated better. Our den/office is single story and the internal temp rose 5 degrees the day we had 2-3" of snow on the roof. First time that room had made it to the 70deg set point since the temps dropped below 30.

We're on a waiting list for a weatherization grant from the county, but that's a 2 year wait apparently. The 2 years should be up soon so I'm hoping that comes along soon. They'll do just about everything apparently: roof, doors, windows, blown in insulation.

 

I'll start by telling you i am a Home Inspector in Western New York. I insulated homes for about 7 years 'professionally', and worked in a number of the trades over teh years prior to getting into the real estate side of it. What helps is that we are both in NY, as things vary around the country as would the proper approach to some things.


This gets a bit confusing. The real estate company said 1980, but I found a newspaper as a shelf liner dated 1927, the foundation is chiseled flagstone (not something I'd expect for 1980 and later), there's older wiring remnants, and a friend of the family said there was a fire/rebuild in 1980 (probably were the 1980 date came from). But there's also poured concrete sections here and there, so it's probably been an on-going project.

Yeah, sound older. 27' sounds about right with the flagstone. I'm surprised the RE company can get away with calling it a 1980 build though. Bastards...
Anyway, sometimes fires in those old homes will occur as a result of insulating around / over old Knob and Tube wiring. The K and T wiring was not insulated like Romex type wiring usef today or even the 50's style sheathed wiirng. Heating costs were such way back then that iit wasn't much of an issue. Not the case anymore, as heating costs are obviously much higher.
You really need to change out any remaining K and T wiring or at least, not insulated near it. It traps heat and leads to fires. Areas under attic floors are especially important as they are often the first areas prople want to do insulation upgrades.

ps - If it looks like any toilets are origional to the home, (not that unusual in an old home for 'character') look inside the tank. Sometimes you'll find a date stamped there...

We did the windows because I think they were the original ones. Half didn't have storm windows and I was able to find glass in various closets to put back in, but most of those had broken/missing tracks to hold them. I managed to rig most of them in with duct tape and outside plastic. Not great, but helps a little. But the new windows really help! We did 2 living rooms (8 windows) and there tends to be a 7 degree difference between 1 living room and the adjacent kitchen. The doors are also original I think. All wood, painted countless times without sanding first so they're lumpy, round, and don't fit the frames tightly without stapling foam or cardboard in to fill the gaps and flaps at the bottoms. Hell, the back door of our den/office is just planks nailed together like a shed door. Same with the basement one. So yeah, new doors are on my list too.

If you want to save heat, the upstairs windows would be the first to prioritze, as would the house sides the weather approached from. lso living in NY, my assumption would bne your south and west sides of the home. Of course, if you spend more time in certain rooms, those might leap others in priority for you. Old lead paint is probably present so kids rooms windows would also be a priority. (Some lead dust is released when the windows operated up and down)

I know the roof could be insulated better. Our den/office is single story and the internal temp rose 5 degrees the day we had 2-3" of snow on the roof. First time that room had made it to the 70deg set point since the temps dropped below 30.
Unless its a cathedral ceiling, insulated the ceiling, not the roof. Insulating the roof line will be more of a hassle, you'll heat an attic space you don't need to, and you'll trap moisture and potentially rot out you roof unless you have proper ventilation of the roof deck.

We're on a waiting list for a weatherization grant from the county, but that's a 2 year wait apparently. The 2 years should be up soon so I'm hoping that comes along soon. They'll do just about everything apparently: roof, doors, windows, blown in insulation.

If they are blowing in the walls as well, be siure that any K and T is addressed there as well. A lot of times, if you don't know before hand, clues to whether it is still there can be found in the basement and/or the attic. Trapping heat with K and T wiring is detrimental, whether in the attic 'floor' or in the walls.

Also, proper ventialtion of the roof is important for any heat that does escape after the fact, (some will) to direct the lost heat out of any roof / attic areas. Othersize, moisture issues with the roof deck as well as seasonal ice-damming that can cause leaks and damaged gutters and fascia is a lot more likely.

 

First of all, thanks for all the info! I read the whole post to my wife and she appreciates the info to!

I think all the K&T crap is not used. Only reason I know it was there is a few knobs here and there with a small section of wire between them. Like they didn't bother removing all when they upgraded (we have a breaker box, no fuses). But it wouldn't surprise me if there's more. So much of this house is half-assed. Switches that don't control anything, lights that don't turn off, ALL the outlets in a room with a pellet stove run by 1 light switch, barn run by 1 120v line (and again 1 light switch)..... *sigh* We need to get an electrician in to look at everything and ballpark what needs to be changed and how much, but....money and time. We also want to go from 100amp to 200amp service.

I understand about attic insulation now. Thanks! What I meant by the den/office is that it looks like only 6-8" between the paneled ceiling and sheet metal roof so I don't think there's much insulation. Certainly no attic or crawl space to act as a buffer zone.

We did the 1st floor windows because they were an odd size requiring custom made windows, and the day my father in law (a general contractor) went to price windows they had a sale ending that week on custom made windows. So we jumped on that deal and got 8 custom made, double hung, double paned, argo filled windows for less than the premade lower quality ones from Lowes. The 2nd floor windows are a standard size we could buy off the shelf later. (Also had just enough money from that "Stimulus Package" to get that many.) I'm also hestitant to put a LOT of money into things that might be covered by the grant later. I just wanted to make a start to offset the cost of heating until our turn for the grant comes up. And the 2 living rooms we did were the 2 most drafty rooms that we also spend the most time in (and are west and south facing).

At some point we want to gut the walls of plaster/lath, insulate and put up drywall.

Interesting tip about the toliets! The downstairs one was broken so we replaced it, and I think the upstairs one is newer as I believe it was just the second story rebuilt in 1980. I can see charred ends of boards in the attic on the outside walls so I'm assuming they torn part of the 2nd floor down and built back up.

Also assuming water from the firetrucks is what messed up the plaster ceilings and some of the walls. Maybe why there are water marks on the hardwood floor upstairs too.

 

I could give lots of tips on how to set it up if you ever get to that point, Such as roof over stove and etc. Would rather talk on the phone when time got closer to give you some ideas.

You can burn anything you want since the stove is completely freestanding and seperate from any buildings. It does not affect my homeowners insurance at all. I can only assume this would be the same with all insurance companies.

I'll try to simplify pumps, blowers and controls etc. for this post.
This is my setup, there are variations......

1 pump per building to circulate hot water when there is a call for heat. I use the existing blower in my furnace to circulate the air. These both cycle on and off with a thermostat in each building.

I have rural water at my house. Therefore with no well pump, it takes no electricity to get water in my house. The water main coming from the road is pressurized of coarse, so when I open a water valve in the house, you get water.

I spliced into my water line at the hot water heater, ran a water line out to a heat exchanger in the wood burner, then ran it back to the water heater. This is the potable domestic water loop which is seperate from the 'process' water loop that heats the buildings.

So when I turn on a hot water faucet or shower in the house, the water from the main line supplied by the water company is forced through the stove and out whatever sink or shower I have on. I keep the circuit breaker off on my water heater in the winter time when I have a fire going. Hot water basically only costs firewood, which is free if you do it right.....watch that meter spin when a 240 volt hot water heater kicks on...

The stove itself has a forced air fan that feeds the fire to keep the water at 180*. When it cycles off a gravity damper closes to smother the fire until the temp of the water drops again. All these components use very little electricity......


Here is a link, dang I want a new one, great new features on them...mine is 16 years old and it has been great.
Oh yeah, on my electric bill I figured my ROI after I bought it...saved the cost of the stove in about 6 years. Quick return. But that was with not buying any firewood.
I love the smell of firewood burning........
http://www.taylorwaterstove.com/index.htm

 

Thanks! Hot water makes sense. I forgot I only have a circulator pump on the furnace line for the baseboard heat, not the potable hot water line.

 

Yikes, piercedtiger,

Sorry about the bad spelling. I was in a hurry earlier and trying to put out as much info as possible before i had to take off. Glad you could make sense of it.

Be sure to get back if you have any specific questions.

WNYTACOMA
(Western New York Tacoma)

 

It's ok! I could make sense of it! Thanks for the help. I don't have too many questions right now. I'm trying to research different things, but it seems kinda pointless when we don't have the money to do anything with the plans. Doing redneck things right now to help insulate for this winter until we can replace more key elements like the doors and windows. I figure if we can at least eliminate those large draft areas we can work on other things like rebuilding the interior walls with more insulation.

We need a new roof too so I'm thinking about sheet metal instead of shingles. Saw on Blogcabin on DIY where the sheet metal roof they used had 6 or 8" of foam under it. Seems like something like that might help insulate better too. That, and one company I did tech support for sold TechShield which is OSB with a foil covered side. Supposed to reduce summer attic temps by up to 30 degrees. (http://www.lpcorp.com/techshieldfoil/ ) Since we need to replace some of the wood under the shingles anyway I'm thinking we might as well do something like that while we're at it.

 

I had my electrical system upgraded, had a new heater installed (much more energy efficient than the one that had been in the house forever!), got a water softener, and had a woodstove insert installed. I just use the woodstove for supplemental heat but the fringe benefit is being able to enjoy the beautiful fire.

 

Tamale,
I'm needing to upgrade service too. Can you tell me what did you go from/to? If you don't mind me asking what did it cost you approx. for your panel?

 

Well, I'm not the most educated person when it comes to this kind of thing so I'm not real sure what the previous set up was. All I know is that it was at least 25 years old, maybe older. What I got was a 200 Amp Square D (that's the manufacturers name) panel. It has 40 circuits. Unfortunately, for me, I dealt with a company that totally ripped me off on the price. They charged me $5800 (that was with their big deal discount). I recently had some electrical work done by a decent local company and when I showed them the paperwork from having the new stuff installed they were floored. They said they're company would have done it for about 1/2 that amount. Live and learn. The other thing that made me mad was the ground rod outside was supposed to be connected to the cold water and the guy connected it to the hot water instead. We didn't know that until the guys installing the new heater kept getting shocks and figured out that was why. The company came out and switched it barely offering an apology. Interesting thing about it was that I also had to pay over $200 for an inspector to come out and sign off on the work and when he came he was here approx. 5 min. signed the paperwork and went on his way. Never bothered to check the ground rod. So, my advice is, check with friends/relatives and see if they can recommend a good electrician. Don't get suckered like I did.

 

OMG That really sucks! Sorry you were ripped like that. I'm thinking of going to a 200amp cause I have a really old 150 and it's getting harder to buy new C/B's for it. Last month I had to order one from a wholesale electric outfitter and the breaker cost $60. For a 20amp single pole unit.
I'm going to help on the project when the time comes. So that will save a little money. I know that time is right around the corner. I've been saving up for the panel and my main ground will have to be changed. No more water grounds due to new code regs.
One more question: did the elec co. have to pull new service cable to your house or get a new meter can?

 

This one's for Chris4x4.

Save money on TP. Wipe your ass with a cat. They just clean it off anyways and it looks like they have a rip roaring time doing it.

If you get a Persian it's like having 3ply silk paper!