Show me your water/meth setups on the 5vz-fe

I have a 1998 4runner supercharged with the 7th injector kit and I have not been super happy with it. It's hard to find good info for tuning on this setup, especially from high altitude folks, but so far I have found with my car in Denver and 2.1 pulley I get about 8.5-9psi and I basically only need to spray fuel from the 7th at like 4800+rpm for WOT--confirmed with WB 02. However tuning timing is a nightmare and I find the on-boost/part throttle (especially going uphill like I70 west) it just never feels strong and when I run a good amount of retard to be safe, it will just be terrible. I have tried zeroing out timing all the way to adding large amount of retard and while it certainly runs better with no or less retard, I worry about ping...which I can't hear or anything and the OBDII timing advance data is just so inconsistent, its really difficult to understand how to tune this to run right.

So here I am looking at everyone's success with water meth and wondering if I should just pull out the 7th kit and go with something like a snow perf stg 2 kit. I'm just a little confused as since I don't currently really need much extra fuel (keep in mind I also have the walbro 190 pump), my issues are more on the timing side. Will it run "rich" in lower rpms with a water meth or will it be fine?

 

I have the exact same set up and problem. I'm pulling so much timing to keep from pinging you can feel it mid-range. We can only buy 91 octane where I live so I attribute pinging to poor fuel quality.

Have you installed the meth injection and did it help with your issues?

My kit would need to start injection at about zero psi, 2500rpm. That's where my truck starts to detonate on a long highway grade... if I dont make it kick back to a lower gear!

 

Meth injection is not the answer here. Spraying that low won’t work well for a number of reasons. Your issue is probably something sensor related.

I might get some flack for this but I had the same issue and chased if for a long time. What ended up fixing mine was a new crank sensor. My original one was dirty and had some magnetic material on it. Cleaning it up helped so I just bought a new one.

I also had my ECU out for about a week as well. Maybe try unplugging your ECU under the dash completely overnight first. Then try removing and cleaning that crank sensor and maybe a new one to see if it helps.

Now I run very little timing retard just for the hell of it but I could zero that area out if I wanted with no issues.

 

I’m in Denver too,

I run only the methonal kit, no 7th injector,
Methonal you can set your spray at any boost and have the options of 6 different nozzles for more methonal or water depending.

Methonal is maintenance so keep that in mind.

Methonal has ALOT of advantages that the 7th injector doesn’t do.

Methonal
1) your throttle body and valves will be clean squeaky
2) your intake temperatures can be dropped by 100 degrees
3) air will be thicker And denser and cooler
4) you don’t need to replace fuel injectors or mess with ECU and use stock fuel pump.
5) you can raise your octane input with the percent of methonal of you mix it.
6) you will get better timing number because the intake temperatures are cooler.
7) very easy to tune
8) methonal seals the rotors up for a better seal for better boost,
9) no heat soaking problems
1st things you need to check off tho to make sure your fuel system is working at 100 percent.
If you haven't done these things you need to so you know your fuel system is working at 100 percent.

1) new fuel pump
2) fuel injection cleaned serviced, injector filters replaced,
3) cooler plugs
4) lower 170 stat
5) clean MAF both wicks in the sensor.
6) make sure you don’t have carbon issues in the intake valve areas

I run a 1.9 pulley and on a good day 13 pounds of boost 300 rear wheel horse power.
She eats up the mountain roads up I70 with ease

 

Actual hp is 300 at the wheel?? There's only 1 person I seen that dyno slightly over 300hp on his 5vz sc on a dynojet, not considering hp loss between drivetrain.

 

Not sure why you'd get flack, but I found the suggestion helpful...I'll definitely check out my CAS. That would be amazing to have this be even a part solution. Thanks

It sucks to realize how often I'm in the 2-3K range, which is unfortunately the worst part of the setup. WOT/3.5K+ rpm (when its reading knock sensors) is great and meets expectations. I've changed my tune to spray the 7th with the lowest duty cycle possible in the 2-3K range to somewhat cool the charge in a vain attempt to not have to retard my timing too much.

The main ding to meth for me is just having to refill and worry about refilling all the time (I assume you are using washer fluid?). How much of a PIA have you found with this? Have you just kept your foot out of it if/when you've run out of juice?

Also isn't anything lower than 2.1 overdriving the s/c? I could be confused with another car/unit though. I don't mind feeding her more boost (esp if I had meth anyway), but I just worry about the chargers rpm...

Thanks all! Appreciate the replies, I thought this thread might have died off...

 

If I run the 2.2 or 2.1 pulley here in Denver I don’t need any Methonal or fuel upgrades.

My fuel system is working at 100 percent,
Yours might not be.

 

Mine is at the wheel with the Dyno Jet.
At 10 pounds of boost the Dyno gives me 275 hp at the wheel,
At the crank over 300 easily.
13 pounds will be 300hp at the rear wheel.
So crank would be 20 percent more or so,
Most trucks are not putting 275 hp at 10 pounds of boost at the rear wheel tho

 

Well I have a new pump (190lph came with 7th kit), new fuel filter, cleaned the MAF and run colder plugs. I suppose I could get the injectors cleaned, my coolant temps have been fine to me so I didn't opt for the 170deg thermo. But it really feels like fueling isn't the issue-- it's the heat of the charge and lack of octane.

I believe that you could run those pulleys without fuel or meth- in-boost/part-throttle timing issues aside- I could too, the car literally just starts to go slightly lean at near redline, so if you aren't constantly banging off redline you'll likely have no problems. I pre-emptively bought the 7th kit since it was generally recommended and it makes sense considering you are converting an N/A car to F/I. However, I feel the 7th kit is a waste for me in this regard as I basically only use it to guarantee a ~11.5afr at like 5Krpm and its timing capability not all that effective.

 

Do you know the temperatures going into the intake after the supercharger then?
Running a 170 stat will lower your temperature from 190,

Any temperatures being lowered will help regardless,

If your intake temperatures after the supercharger are 150-200 it will effect your power.

If you have 150,000 miles on your fuel injector they probably need cleaning,
They have a fuel filter in each one that needs to be replaced

 

Can the OEM cooling system actually maintain a cooler running temp, especially with a supercharger? I assumed the thermo wasn't the primary reason the engine runs at what it does, as it's mainly to ensure a speedy warm-up phase. I just don't see how delaying the engine from reaching its normal temp is going to do much.

 

Depending of the time of year, yes fall, winter, spring, summer no.

My temperature stays at 170 winter -180 summer all year long but I have a custom radiator

 

You can install a dual temp sensor, one before the supercharger and one on the outlet side going into the intake to know your actual temps and see whats happening when your feeling like your power is down
Here are my 2 temp readings, right before the supercharger throttle body and leaving the supercharger into the top intake

 

I ues a 2.5 gallon tank mounted in the bed so refilling is not that big of a deal, just check level at fill-up time. I am at 4000' and my meth system is boost referenced and PWM referenced off of the IDC (injector duty cycle). This let's me start meth inj. at .5 boost and 2100 rpm and get's progressive from there.
With a 10lb pulley, I retard zero timing at all throughout the rpm range year round in S. NM

 

Aquamist?

 

Yep

 

Ive been interested in that system. How do you go about setting up the rpm and boost threshold? Is it on a computer?

 

It is the HFS-2, just set the trim pots and jumpers in the brain box. Super easy.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/manual/HFS3v2.15w.pdf

 

I’m assuming you had to find a MAP sensor that you could wire in? If so which one did you use?

 

I don’t have a 5VZ but the 3RZ supercharger is rare enough so I figured I’d share my setup. I have the AEM 5 gallon tank setup in my toolbox.